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Forum Home > BIRKIN'S LABORATORY > Alex Wesker Research

BSAArklay
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Posts: 790

Wow. First of all great work M Greg at the very least it is an interesting find that obviously most people missed. Is it an easter egg or possibly something more? Who knows. It could even be possible that Albert chose to help out Alex by sending her equipment since she no longer had the backing of Spencer at this point.Really make's no difference to me I am more fixated on the fact that Capcom managed to fuck up their entire story DLC collection by adding the wrong timestamps and yet nobody seems to give a shit. Wether or not Alex stole a computer thats irrelevant to me. From who and for what reason is much more interesting to me. 


Even if it is an easter egg it can still be relevant though? Clive O'Brian's book is an easter egg. Doesn't mean it didnt happen.

--

"I've had enough of your bullshit! Your just another one of Umbrella's leftovers"

March 11, 2017 at 7:58 PM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
Moderator
Posts: 308

Clive's book is different because we were told he was writing a book at the end of Revelations. So although it's an easter egg, it's still relevant in that particular case. The difference here is that the director of Revelations 2 has confirmed Alex Wesker has no link to Tricell, therefore News Bot is guessing the only possible explanation is that Alex stole Tricell computers - ignoring the fact that this is not suggested or stated at in the game at all, ignoring the fact that she doesn't even have a reason for doing so, and ignoring the fact the game is practically made up of reused assets and textures. To suggest Alex has operating Tricell equipment in her lab is suggesting a tangible link to the corporation leading to potential plot speculation such as M-Greg has presented, as well thought out as it was. But, the director confirmed no link, therefore we shouldn't try and promote that link when we've already been told it simply doesn't exist. 

March 11, 2017 at 8:12 PM Flag Quote & Reply

BSAArklay
Moderator
Posts: 790

I see both your points I just think you have hammered them into the ground at this point. Batman thinks its an irrelevant easter egg and you think it could be possible to have more of a storied impact. I am hoping for the latter. However either way it makes zero difference anymore as Tricell is no more and Alex we will probably never see again.


I see what you are saying Batman and its impossible to say you are wrong because you are quoting facts. However sometimes the facts can be wrong. See Clancy's timestamps. Maybe it is possible that these Tricell links where put there for a reason. Planting a seed if you will. None the less they are there and if Newsbot wants to add that to his PU page you can deny the facts that they are there just like I cannot deny your fact that the director says there is no link. Only time will tell and debating about it all night changes nothing.

--

"I've had enough of your bullshit! Your just another one of Umbrella's leftovers"

March 11, 2017 at 8:25 PM Flag Quote & Reply

News Bot
Moderator
Posts: 96

REV2 shows that Alex stole from TRICELL. So your attempt to separate this from the O'Brian book example fails instantly under the weight of your own logic.

Alex stole Uroboros from TRICELL yet it's unbelievable that she also stole two boxes?

March 11, 2017 at 8:29 PM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
Moderator
Posts: 308

End of Umbrella Chronicles - a game released in late 2007 post RE4 but set storywise in early 2003. Wesker steals the UMF-013 and boots it up in his secret hideout. Immediately it portrays a detailed schematic of Salazar castle. Now, this image is 'physically there' so 'now has a story' according to News Bot. Does this mean then that Umbrella were watching the castle a full year before Wesker and Ada even discovered the existence of the parasites? Is there some kind of hidden plot here that shows Umbrella were trying to steal Las Plagas? But If Wesker had the archive and the pictures in front of him how then did he not discover their existence until a year later when Ada was conducting intelligence gathering and came across Luis? Head-scratching stuff. But this surely must be true because it's 'physically there' so immediately let's start the news posts and update those Umbrella articles with this mammoth discovery! It's factually there after all so it cannot be incorrect, right?


Or is it, boring answer I know, a simple re-used graphic from a game that came out several years earlier and has absolutely no plot revelance whatsoever? 

March 11, 2017 at 8:39 PM Flag Quote & Reply

News Bot
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Posts: 96

Let's see, one is an entire room lifted wholesale from another game. The other is a company logo, in a series where company logos don't tend to be just thrown in anywhere

March 11, 2017 at 8:43 PM Flag Quote & Reply

SarahLy
Member
Posts: 171

I hate Reddit with all my heart. Paper thin discussions, blind fans, blind haters, tldr(sit your lazy ass down and read the whole  thing). But let's try and translate what you guys are saying from Middle Hardcore Biohazard to Simple Reddit:


"Bro Capcom are lazy they reuse shit all the time plus we got AMPO on board  man so game over!!"


"Nah uh dude Capcom are known to be inconsistent ampo shampo i want something official plus the evidence is right there watch the symbol!"


The thing with RE is you're free to think what you want unless there's a canon document saying otherwise(and even then who knows with Capcom :)). So for now you're both free to think what you want. That interview with the director doesn't mean much because it's a video game company and maybe he won't be in charge of the next game with Alex in it.  When we'll see Alex again maybe they will adress this(or maybe in archives 3) but until then it's pure speculation, don't let your personal rivalry cloud your judgement.

March 13, 2017 at 5:59 PM Flag Quote & Reply

M-Greg
Moderator
Posts: 82
To be perfectly honest, I think it's pretty clear that Ampo's answer means next to nothing with regard to this matter for several reasons. Indeed, I never said that Alex was connected to TRICELL, just that her possessing equipment of theirs could suggest a lot more that we don't know about yet. I then went on to list multiple other reasons I believe this besides the logo in her tower. I also said nothing about her having a "real date" with Albert or having face-to-face interactions with him in my theory. On top of that, Ampo's opinion is just that, an opinion. One that is based solely on one game he helped with, not on the series narrative as a whole. Someone could easily come along and make him flatout wrong in the next game if they wanted to, not that such a possibility matters at the moment but it remains a possibility. I do find it noteworthy that he never bothered to mention the logo or the future of the series in his answer, however. This is really unrelated, but I also see no reason to believe that Albert's voice in CORPS was an Easter Egg.
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The basis of controlling fear... Only those who've conquered fear deserve to rule the world.

March 16, 2017 at 12:27 AM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
Moderator
Posts: 308

M-Greg at March 16, 2017 at 12:27 AM

To be perfectly honest, I think it's pretty clear that Ampo's answer means next to nothing with regard to this matter for several reasons. Indeed, I never said that Alex was connected to TRICELL, just that her possessing equipment of theirs could suggest a lot more that we don't know about yet. I then went on to list multiple other reasons I believe this besides the logo in her tower. I also said nothing about her having a "real date" with Albert or having face-to-face interactions with him in my theory. On top of that, Ampo's opinion is just that, an opinion. One that is based solely on one game he helped with, not on the series narrative as a whole. Someone could easily come along and make him flatout wrong in the next game if they wanted to, not that such a possibility matters at the moment but it remains a possibility. I do find it noteworthy that he never bothered to mention the logo or the future of the series in his answer, however. This is really unrelated, but I also see no reason to believe that Albert's voice in CORPS was an Easter Egg.

It’s pretty evident Ampo’s answer plainly just answers the question. He was downright asked about the Tricell equipment in Alex’s lab and he immediately shot down any link between Alex and Tricell. Your argument about her possessing equipment is simply trying to promote something that we’ve already been told doesn’t exist. Other people get carried away and then start applying it to articles and before we know it, it spreads to the wiki, reddit and then everywhere else – doing nothing except promoting misinformation. It’s a game that frequently uses recycled textures from other games and you said it yourself, they are well-hidden in the background and will only be found by those with a keen eye for detail. If they were boxes the virus came in, they would be front and centre for the player to find and be in a much more obvious location if they were meant to have any significance at all. This is further reinforced by the fact that the lab where the Uroboros research was carried out was on the other side of the island under the mines. If the boxes were found there then your argument may at least hold a little more water but even then i'd still argue them being a simple reused texture. This game is loaded wth them. Just because they are 'physically there' doesn't mean they have any significance. Do you believe Umbrella were spying on Salazar's castle in 2003, one year before anyone even knew the Plagas existed? Or is it simply a re-used asset?


If you want to go down the slippery slope of dismissing developer’s answers as just opinion, then you can simply apply that train of thought to any quote you happen to disagree with across the whole series and we may as well just delete a large chunk of the supplemental material we have. Ampo didn’t just ‘help’ with Revelations 2, he directed it. He’s provided many story interviews to various sites and clearly he’s been vague on aspects he’s not sure of, saying stuff like “it’s possible”, or “I’m pretty sure”, but with this particular question above, he was definitive straight away.


Yes anyone can come along in the next game and change something, they could bring back Enrico as an undead B.S.A.A. soldier if they wished, but we go on the evidence we have here and now and your theory about Tricell doesn’t hold up. Likewise if Alex had stronger ties to the rival company as you are pitching, then her and Albert’s paths would have crossed much earlier. Don’t put too much stock into him being ‘invited’ to join the rival company either. He was a valuable acquisition for them, despite the mistakes he made early on. There was also a ton of stuff about B.O.W.s going on behind the scenes prior to 1998. The U.S. Government had been in collusion with Umbrella for years up till that point, likewise the rival company knew all about the B.O.W. program, they just couldn’t jump-start their own until they got hold of the t-Virus. There’s also the likes of the Sacred Snakes who had access to the t-Virus since 1991 and were later using zombies as weapons of terror against their enemies.

 

There’s every reason to believe Albert’s voice in UC is just an easter egg. It's only to be found in the multiplayer section of a combat shooter Capcom stated has no forward-facing story. There is no evidence to suggest he is being resurrected in any form whatsoever. Nothing at all, unless you count a replica of his gun as ‘hard evidence’ of a clone and a completely unfounded guess about what the ‘Gregor Project’ is in an unrelated title’s bonus game. That’s all people can seem to bring to the table when I repeatedly ask for some evidence to support the matter.

 

March 16, 2017 at 5:50 AM Flag Quote & Reply

M-Greg
Moderator
Posts: 82

That's my point, each developer can only answer in the area of what they have worked on. And for Yasuhiro Ampo, that's one game. I said he helped because he didn't write the full script and we're talking about the story aspect, although he had influence in it. He also said "nothing was said" (I didn't say anything was said and who's to say it won't be later), "probably", and "I do not believe". And he neglected to even mention the parts of the question referring to future games or the equipment at all, which is smart as he was probably avoiding overstepping his reach. Hardly what I'd call definitive. Yasuhisa Kawamura believed, given there being "no mention" (dismissing Albert's character file) in BIO5, the rival company to have gone out of business or be bought up. Neither of which is true as of CORPS and BIO7. How "slippery" do you think this "slope" is exactly, when details are constantly being changed?

No, I don't believe the Salazar Castle should be there, because it hasn't been referenced anywhere else. I agree that the entire room was just copied and pasted for one scene and yes indeed they reuse textures all the time. But like the Umbrella logo from BIO, I don't think that just means every reused texture is irrelevant. The TRICELL logo appears nowhere else on the entire island except in that one spot, unless someone has found it somewhere else. I just think that is in some way significant, that's all. Not that Alex was working for TRICELL and helping Albert over Skype!

Wesker's Report states that he was invited and we already know that they had contact with him at some point prior to X-Day. Of course he was valuable to them, many of the higher-ups wanted him gone but couldn't just get rid of him a few years later. What difference does it make how we interpret that line of communication to have opened? Alex influencing, possibly creating or helping to create, the rival company in some way does not at all require her to cross Albert's path or even him to know about her involvement (which would be tough while she's on a remote island lol). She'd be in the perfect position to create this new Umbrella, fresh from the Intelligence Division with the head of the company's resources readily available to siphon.

Again, if the rival company had a name of its own before becoming "Umbrella Co.", I think we would know it by now. Therefore it makes sense for it to be entirely made up of Umbrella defectors, like Alex and Albert themselves both were, moving to take control, which would also explain how they knew about Umbrella's work behind the scenes as we already knew that they knew. The Sacred Snakes needed exactly what I've been referring to, a defector from Umbrella, one with ties to the Ashfords in order to access the t-Virus. I'm not sure what your point was supposed to be there. Every use of the t-Virus before Umbrella's collapse in 2003 was made possible by leaks in the company or in Simmons' case by working with them. It wasn't just automatically known what they were up to by other groups.

Surveillance of a company and stealing that company's resources, in this case TRICELL, does not require a connection to said company. Alex is written and presented like a character with as much penchant for manipulating/controlling events and as much influence to move through the shadows and know about events going on elsewhere as Albert, not an insignificant one-off antagonist. And low and behold, she will return.

Like the TRICELL logo in Alex's Monument, there has been no confirmation that Albert's voice in CORPS is an Easter Egg. None whatsoever. If someone comes out and says it in the future, great. It hasn't happened yet, therefore it shouldn't be dismissed.

--

The basis of controlling fear... Only those who've conquered fear deserve to rule the world.

March 16, 2017 at 1:01 PM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
Moderator
Posts: 308

M-Greg at March 16, 2017 at 1:01 PM

That's my point, each developer can only answer in the area of what they have worked on. And for Yasuhiro Ampo, that's one game. I said he helped because he didn't write the full script and we're talking about the story aspect, although he had influence in it. He also said "nothing was said" (I didn't say anything was said and who's to say it won't be later), "probably", and "I do not believe". And he neglected to even mention the parts of the question referring to future games or the equipment at all, which is smart as he was probably avoiding overstepping his reach. Hardly what I'd call definitive. Yasuhisa Kawamura believed, given there being "no mention" (dismissing Albert's character file) in BIO5, the rival company to have gone out of business or be bought up. Neither of which is true as of CORPS and BIO7. How "slippery" do you think this "slope" is exactly, when details are constantly being changed?

No, I don't believe the Salazar Castle should be there, because it hasn't been referenced anywhere else. I agree that the entire room was just copied and pasted for one scene and yes indeed they reuse textures all the time. But like the Umbrella logo from BIO, I don't think that just means every reused texture is irrelevant. The TRICELL logo appears nowhere else on the entire island except in that one spot, unless someone has found it somewhere else. I just think that is in some way significant, that's all. Not that Alex was working for TRICELL and helping Albert over Skype!

Wesker's Report states that he was invited and we already know that they had contact with him at some point prior to X-Day. Of course he was valuable to them, many of the higher-ups wanted him gone but couldn't just get rid of him a few years later. What difference does it make how we interpret that line of communication to have opened? Alex influencing, possibly creating or helping to create, the rival company in some way does not at all require her to cross Albert's path or even him to know about her involvement (which would be tough while she's on a remote island lol). She'd be in the perfect position to create this new Umbrella, fresh from the Intelligence Division with the head of the company's resources readily available to siphon.

Again, if the rival company had a name of its own before becoming "Umbrella Co.", I think we would know it by now. Therefore it makes sense for it to be entirely made up of Umbrella defectors, like Alex and Albert themselves both were, moving to take control, which would also explain how they knew about Umbrella's work behind the scenes as we already knew that they knew. The Sacred Snakes needed exactly what I've been referring to, a defector from Umbrella, one with ties to the Ashfords in order to access the t-Virus. I'm not sure what your point was supposed to be there. Every use of the t-Virus before Umbrella's collapse in 2003 was made possible by leaks in the company or in Simmons' case by working with them. It wasn't just automatically known what they were up to by other groups.

Surveillance of a company and stealing that company's resources, in this case TRICELL, does not require a connection to said company. Alex is written and presented like a character with as much penchant for manipulating/controlling events and as much influence to move through the shadows and know about events going on elsewhere as Albert, not an insignificant one-off antagonist. And low and behold, she will return.

Like the TRICELL logo in Alex's Monument, there has been no confirmation that Albert's voice in CORPS is an Easter Egg. None whatsoever. If someone comes out and says it in the future, great. It hasn't happened yet, therefore it shouldn't be dismissed.

Ampo worked with Tsukasa Takenaka on Rev2 who was an advisor. He was responsible for the story background and files in Resident Evil 5 and was hired to ensure all the details involving the Wesker Children and Uroboros correlated perfectly. Hell, he’s likely also the creator of the Alex Wesker character. So when he says there’s no connection to Tricell, regardless of whether it be a huge plot point or something as insignificant as a logo, we go with what he says. To suggest otherwise is promoting misinformation. Kawamura always clarified his interviews with a disclaimer that any questions he answered pertaining to story points he did not directly work on was just speculation on his part.


That’s the only room in the game with high-tech computer equipment. Why would it appear somewhere else? In what way is that significant? The reused boxes from Ivy University in 6 are only to be found in the opening prison level. Is that significant? If you keep insisting Alex has no connection to Tricell then why does it have to be significant? So you don't believe Umbrella were spying on Salazar and that it is just a resused texture. Why do you believe that? Is it because you simply don't like that plot idea? How is Rev 2 and a Tricell box any different, other that it's an idea you like the sound of? This is the exact point I am making.


Wesker planned his defection from Umbrella the moment Marcus was assassinated in 1988. It was in his thought process for a long, long time. He was in contact with the rival company and only joined when he did because the mansion biohazard forced his hand. There is no evidence for Alex influencing or creating the rival company whatsoever though. She was loyal to Umbrella until at least August 1998, and feigned loyalty to Spencer until 2006 whilst at the same time setting up her own secret operations on that island. I don’t see how you’re factoring in any kind of involvement with the rival company here, or even why she would want to.


The rival company never had a name because it was an ultimately discarded plot point that became lost under a succession of different writers and scrapped builds. What we do know is that they were a legitimate rival to Umbrella, a pharmaceutical company, and that they knew about Umbrella’s illegal bio-weapons program. They also have an expansive spy network which is why they know so much about Umbrella. There is absolutely nothing to suggest Alex was involved with them in any shape or form whatsoever. Umbrella defectors went all over the place, this is why the black market was flooded after Umbrella's demise with all kinds of stuff. The guy helping Javier in '91 was not a defector, he was an associate of the Ashford family who sold him the virus in a business deal.


There has been no confirmation about Albert's role as an easter egg because Capcom have never, ever commented on the specifics of the game. But weighing up the evidence for each argument, it's clear on balance of probabilities what the answer is. 

March 16, 2017 at 1:33 PM Flag Quote & Reply

M-Greg
Moderator
Posts: 82
I understand your opinion, but agree to disagree and whatever the next development team says will make one or both of our arguments irrelevant anyway. I see a big difference between the Salazar map and the TRICELL logo myself because one has no plot significance as Las Plagas essentially didn't exist yet. The other, however, does have some potentially. As we both pointed out, the logo was in the complete wrong location to be related to Uroboros as that was kept and tested in an entirely different facility on the island. It's also the only place the logo appears and isn't a completely reused room like Albert's control room, but an entirely new room. Sure, even then it could still be just an Easter Egg. But it hasn't been deemed as such and they didn't have to put it there as it was never mentioned that Alex kept anything from TRICELL there, which suggests it was placed there deliberately. If it is an Easter Egg, I'd say it's a rather pointless and unneeded one then. Alex could easily have had them take more than just samples without it being mentioned, I'm not saying it's super important but it doesn't break the story. One could argue that the specimens in Alex's chamber (the one where she shoots herself) are just Easter Eggs from the first game as they greatly resemble those found in the Tyrant's room. But I don't believe that to be the case, their relevance was never mentioned but that doesn't mean they had no purpose beyond being for show. We just don't have all the answers yet. I'm not sure why this is such an issue when it doesn't really bother Canon. You think the boxes are nothing, fine. I don't.
--

The basis of controlling fear... Only those who've conquered fear deserve to rule the world.

March 17, 2017 at 1:04 AM Flag Quote & Reply

News Bot
Moderator
Posts: 96

Delta Force soldiers from BIO3 appearing in Dino Crisis 2 is an easter egg. Delta Force soldiers found in the abandoned plant also being found in the hospital isn't so much, and the TRICELL logo falls in here. It's insignificant at the moment because there is no implicit story ties. If you consider it an easter egg, cool. If you don't, then all it means is that Alex had two pieces of metal with the TRICELL logo on it likely from when her men recovered Uroboros. Since they would have needed to go through TRICELL's lab to get it (unless you subscribe to the theory that they got it from the volcano, since Alex's necklace is obsidian, volcanic rock), I merely see it as a little background nod to establish that she got it from TRICELL and not Albert


We go with what we see under a lack of clarification or additional context. The example of Umbrella Chronicles is pretty poor since that game wasn't even developed by CAPCOM and was made after being lended resources from previous games with the absolute bare minimum of new design. Not the case with REV2 or even REV1. You can still speculate about the castle image to explain how quickly Wesker mobilized on the Plaga between 2003 and 2004, and even heard about it in the first place since there's been no information given about that, aside from this:(


"Upon hearing information about a parasite in Europe that gave superhuman strength to its host, Wesker planned a mission to steal a sample of this "Plaga" parasite from the cult of Los Illuminados."


Ada's Report and the Report About Ada also give no information as to the extent of the rival company's involvement, as far as we know due to a lack of conflicting information, the entire op was orchestrated from the ground up by Wesker based on an unknown source. Could Umbrella have been aware of the Plaga but couldn't do anything about it with their public exposure and Wesker dug it up from the Umbrella Archive? There's nothing to concretely make this impossible, but for now without something to bind it to the world, it exists in a limbo of unimportance and irrelevance, rather than plot detail or easter egg, in my opinion, just as we tacitly just ignored the Delta Force soldiers in the hospital for years.

March 19, 2017 at 12:58 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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