CRIMSON HEAD ELDER

Survival Horror Community & Podcast

RESIDENTS FORUM

Post Reply
Forum Home > BIRKIN'S LABORATORY > Resident Evil 6 Questions

Xarls
Moderator
Posts: 203



1 - Who had the great idea of putting an amnesiac as team leader?!


2 - Did anyone else realize everytime a Lepotitsa appears Leon and Helena cause innocent deaths (First they unleash it in the church infecting the people there and when they throw the second one out of the plane they infect a group of Langshiang civilians found by Ada)


3 - Why didn´t alpha handcuff Ada/Carla? It´s the standard procedure (Handcuffin civilians and hostages to prevent them for grabbing a weapon or doing what Ada did: pretend to be a civilian)


4 - Was such a twisting plot necessary? In my oppinion simple plots RE1 and RE2 work WAY better.


5 - What happened to that Echo BSAA member that Ada saved with the helicopter (When you are shooting zombies that are attacking a group of civilians with a BSAA member)? I always wondered if he was rescued.


6 - What happened to Delta and Bravo teams? they were far from the C-Virus  missile explosion but only Charlie speaks on the radio.


Don´t get me wrong, I LOVE RE6 and I have played over 180 hours...but the game seems full of unaswered questions and impossible to understand situations.


Time to hear your oppinions!


--

The DEADPOOLEST Crimson Head Elder resident

April 9, 2014 at 7:13 AM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
Moderator
Posts: 308

1. Piers. And its a great idea because it helps Chris remember. He may have lost his memory, but he hadn't lost his skills in battle or his leadership qualities. It's fine.

2. Yes, everyone realised.

3. If your talking about Edonia then she wasn't a prisoner, she was a civilian. Why would they handcuff her? 

4. This plot is simple compared to RE1 and 2. That's what made it shockingly bad. If you've played RE1 and 2 but not read all the supplemental material available for those games then you have missed out on over 60% of the story.

5. Who knows.

6. Some died, some survived.


April 14, 2014 at 2:31 PM Flag Quote & Reply

George Trevor
Site Owner
Posts: 1087

1. Yes, I did think this an oddity at first, but TheBatman makes good sense with his analysis.


2. I think the consequences are a poorly thought through game mechanic and cannot be considered as part of a logical debate into the game-play narrative.


3. Not sure if it is standard procedure to handcuff civilians, unless their hostage status is under suspicion?


4. Initially I was in total agreement with Xarls's point here, but TheBatman's refrence to the suplimentary material available for RE1 & RE2 reminded me that much of the older games did involve stumbleing in the dark, not knowing exactly what was going on & who were the string-pullers, and the plot for these first two installments only became entirely clear after reading this substantial additional material. However I am not totally convinced that RE6 was simple by comparison - more that it was inane & unintelligent by comparison. But either way, the plot of RE6 was its main downfall for me, and leaves me cold, bored, and uninterested where RE1 & RE2 still intrigues & excites me.


5. Interesting point, to which I would like to apply the 'George Trevor' rule - Without a corpse, death cannot be confirmed!


6. TheBatman covered this, but I would have liked a clearer in-game explanation of their fate - seemed to be a very lazy omisson.


Well yes there are many unanswered questions in RE6, but unlike the many initially unanswered questions that filled my head after playing RE1, RE2, & RE3, I have no interest in pursuing & sheding light on these lines of enquiry, because of the poor, unsatisfying narrative that surrounds these questions - whereas with the earlier games, there was palpable intriuge & fascination for all the loose ends, because the gameplay & narrative were so original, deeply atmospheric, strong and emotional.

--

Jessica... Lisa... Forgive me. May god justify my death in exchange for your safety.

April 14, 2014 at 7:16 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Xarls
Moderator
Posts: 203

Yes, I read the files...but the plot is still confusing, not many plot holes but it is indeed complex.

Civilians are always handcuffed when rescued for two motives:

1- They may be pretending to be victims when actually are terrorist.

2- To prevent them of getting a weapon and doing something stupid.

As for the amnesiac captain...I don´t know, it really feels weird to me, I think putting him as team captain costs the lifes of Keaton, Jeff, Marco and the other guy (Can´t remember now) becouse as soon as he remembered all he wanted was vengeance.

Pity Piers died btw, I thought he and Jake would be the future of the series...Although I would like to see Jake as a villain to be honest, I really missed Wesker in RE6 and I didn´t really enjoy that "the Family" plot.

April 15, 2014 at 3:34 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Xarls
Moderator
Posts: 203

Yes, I read the additional content: Wesker Report, Archives...what I actually mean is that game by game is simple. For example:

- Resident Evil is about a S.T.A.R.S team trapped in a mansion trying to survive and we realise an evil pharmaceutical company is behind it.

- RE2 is about a rookie cop and a teenager trapped in the city and trying to survive, they discover Umbrella´s lab

- RE3 become a bit more complex with the UBCS, more info on Umbrella, BOWs "programmed" to kill S.T.A.R.S.

I really enjoyed those simple "I must survive and escape" plots.

- Code Veronica made it a lot more complex retconning Wesker´s death and all the "reviving Steve" stuff that was finally scrapped.

- RE4 and RE5 were really confusing with a lame explanation for Umbrella´s fall (And lazy), las Plagas, lots of betrayals, companies that appear and cease to exist without reason (Still confused about who "The Organisation" was, as it apparantly wasn´t Tricell)...Besides as a spaniard Spain´s depiction in RE4 really annoys me, guys we don´t dress like that and our cities are not like that.

- RE6...OK, don´t make me talk about this: Spies who betray so they make a perfect clone using the C-Virus :o, "The Illuminati Family", a fictional "Neo-Umbrella", a guy who loves order but unleashes the C-VIrus in a town...

Civilians are always handcuffed when rescued for two motives:

1- They may be pretending to be victims when actually are terrorist.

2- To prevent them of getting a weapon and doing something stupid.

As for the amnesiac captain...I don´t know, it really feels weird to me, I think putting him as team captain costs the lifes of Keaton, Jeff, Marco and the other guy (Can´t remember now) becouse as soon as he remembered all he wanted was vengeance.

Pity Piers died btw, I thought he and Jake would be the future of the series...Although I would like to see Jake as a villain to be honest, I really missed Wesker in RE6 and I didn´t really enjoy that "The Family" and Neo-Umbrella twisting plot.


April 15, 2014 at 3:53 AM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
Moderator
Posts: 308

Chris was put in charge because he was the original leader and is was designed to make him remember -which it did and therefore served its purpose. Its only after he remembered did he start making the wrong decisions because he was driven by vengence. So regardless of the amnesia or not, he would always have been in charge.

RE6 is simple - Its about Sherry rescuing Jake in Eastern Europe, its about Leon and Helena escaping Tall Oaks and its about Chris and the BSAA saving civlians in Langshiang. An evil organisation is behind it all. Of all the numbered games, its one of the easiest to follow. What's the complication? What questions are you left with when you complete it all? (The fates of minor NPC characters don't really count as large questions)

RE2 for example is far more complex. Why did the government bomb Raccoon City for example? And i'll give you a clue; unlike the game suggests, it was certainly not to eradicate the virus and prevent the biohazard from spreading.

'The Organisation' is also in RE2 and Code Veronica. 

There are no cities in RE4. The Plaga infectants dress that way because the parasite causes them to regress to primitive ways- just like the Ndipaya do in RE5. 

Neo-Umbrella are not fictional.

Civillians are not always handcuffed - evidently you watch too many movies. In the case of Carla, I doubt they would have made much difference regardless.

RE6: Simmons likes Ada - Ada doesn't like Simmons and leaves - Simmons creates clone of Ada - subject who is clone of Ada hates Simmons for experimenting on her and creates Neo-Umbrella; an organisation designed to reign chaos and destroy the stability that the Simmons 'Family' had strived for centuries to preserve.

Simples.

April 15, 2014 at 7:51 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Xarls
Moderator
Posts: 203

I don´t know to what extent Neo-Umbrella was real...What I understood from the game is that Carla "created" it to lure Simmons, but I could be wrong.

The bombing was supposed to erradicate the virus, but actually destroyed all evidence if i´m not mistaken.

The organisation its in both games, but it disappears after RE4, Ada brings them the dominant plaga and wesker gives Tricell the dormant one in Krauser´s body but from that moment on the Organisation just banishes...after 3 games hinting something important.

It´ñs not that I watch many movies, in the movies I think I never saw a rescued civilian handcuffed, besides, Ada/Carla is pretty suspicious and keeping an eye on her proved not to be enough.

Sure the plot can be understandable if you play all campaigns and read the files on RE.NET but I still consider it the most unnecessarily complex game in the series.

And actually there wasn´t an evil organisation behind it all, Simmons was behind Tall Oaks (I think) and Neo-Umbrella/Carla behind Lanshiang and Edonia, but actually it was Simmons behind Edonia as he wanted to check if Jake had the antibodies for the C-Virus so...still a bit confusing. Understandable with the files, but way more complex than classic games IMO.

Despite that I really enjoyed the game, specially Leon´s Campaign and the counter attack system is something I would have really loved back in RE5...

April 15, 2014 at 10:12 AM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
Moderator
Posts: 308

Neo-Umbrella was very real. They were a terrorist organisation built from the ground up to bring down stable system that Simmons and The Family created. They were as real as Umbrella and Tricell were before them.

They were run exclusively by Carla and Simmons had nothing to do with them. Neo-Umbrella developed the enhanced form of the C-Virus as well as the Ustanak and several other B.O.W.s. They also provided the virus which caused the incident in Marhawa Desire.

The bombing of Raccoon City in RE2/3 was carried out with the express purpose of stopping Umbrella recovering the G-Virus. Before Raccoon, Umbrella and the U.S. Government were in bed together for years. But that relationship was destroyed with the Raccoon Incident after the U.S. tried to secure Birkin which led to his assassination by Umbrella.

Wesker bankrupted The Organisation by using all their resources to track down Oswell Spencer. What remnants of the group that were left folded after Wesker died.

Neo-Umbrella is a very evil organisation and they were behind most things in RE6. They supplied B.O.W.s and the C-Virus to the Edonian rebels. They captured and experimented on Jake to create the enhanced C-Virus. They caused the bio-terror attacks in China. The HAOS which was designed to infect the whole world was developed by Neo-Umbrella. 

Tall Oaks was done by the Family to stop Benford revealing the pubic truth about Raccoon City, but Neo-Umbrella later exploited this by taking credit for it.

Simmons may have sent Sherry and Carla to Edonia to get Jake for his antibody, but Carla captured him and took him back to Neo-Umbrella's HQ. She reported him dead to Simmons then experimented on it in secret.

Bottom line is, RE6 is one of the easiest core games to understand simply by playing through it and reading the files. In contrast RE2/3/4 and Revelations can only be fully understood if you digest all the Japanese supplemental material, or which there is a hell of a lot more than just the Archives book and Wesker's Report.

April 15, 2014 at 4:56 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Xarls
Moderator
Posts: 203

I agree with almost all points except 3:

- Neo Umbrella was Carla´s secret organisation, Simmons didn´t have anything to do with it. Carla worked for Simmons and Simmons for the Family (Leader?), Carla created Neo Umbrella in secret to have her revenge on Simmons.

- RE6 isn´t easy to understand, evidence of that is that I agree with nearly everything you said about the other games but we are still debating about 6 and whose Neo-Umbrella is.

- Wesker didn´t bankrupt the organisation, the way I understand it: Wesker worked for Umbrella, he betrayed Umbrella and left for the Organisation (Not Tricell, as you said), later he used the money and assets he amassed from Umbrella and The Organisation to form his own organisation and brought Ada and Krauser with him (He has his own strike force in Code: Veronica, the HCF?), however, Ada betrayed him and gave Saddler´s Plaga to The Organisation (At this point it disappears), Wesker eventually found a dormant dominant plaga in Krauser´s body and, after finding Ozwell thanks to a tip from his butler (Patrick) he gave Excella the dominant plaga so she could become CEO of Tricell Africa and fullfill Weker´s wicked dream.

I know it isn´t relaible source but Neo-Umbrella is described as Carla´s organisation in the wiki.

http://residentevil.wikia.com/Neo_Umbrella

As for the rest I fully agree, you are a true RE encyclopedia and I admire that.


April 15, 2014 at 5:19 PM Flag Quote & Reply

James Marcus
Member
Posts: 226

I am a long time lurker and I have not posted here for a long time but was enjoying this discussion too much to stay silent! I cannot add much to the Resident Evil 6 debate because I wont pretend to find the facts of that series episode worthy of my attention, I just cannot abide that game maybe for the same reason as Xarls. I think what Xarls may be referring to more than is coming across in his posts is the over the top and ludicrous nature of Resident Evil 6 rather than it's simplicity (Xarls?) My profile may give the game away, I am a follower of the survival horror path and the atmosphere of the games before Resident Evil 4 made the stories feel less over the top.

--

I will have my revenge on Umbrella!

April 15, 2014 at 5:48 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Xarls
Moderator
Posts: 203

That´s the point James, sometimes the game just makes little sense to me and I do agree that pre RE4 stories feel less over the top.

Glad to see you in the forums!


April 15, 2014 at 6:45 PM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
Moderator
Posts: 308

How can you not agree with point 1 - that's the whole plot of the game. Carla Radames was Simmon's loyal researcher. She worshipped him and created the C-Virus so that he could complete Project Ada. However 12,000 unsuccessful test subjects later, Simmons realised Carla was a compatable match. Thus he betrayed her, captured her and turned her into a perfect replica of Ada Wong. Carla then trained to be like Ada but over time she began to remember her former life and realised what Simmons did to her. Thus she began to hate him and plotted to destroy everything he created, hence she founded Neo-Umbrella to destroy The Family and the world. Simmons has absolutely nothing to do with Neo-Umbrella whatsoever. There's nothing to debate with that fact. It's clear as day.

2. No. Wesker joined The Organisation immediately after RE1. However, he failed to bring the Tyrant T-002 combat data he'd promised and thus had to prove himself to them. He teamed up with Ada and and recovered the G-Virus from Raccoon City. Later, he led HCF, the special forces group of The Organisation, in a mission to recover the t-Vernonica for Alexia Ashford which again was successful thanks to the sample in Steve's corpse. Wesker remained with The Organisation throughout the events of Darkside and Umbrella Chronicles. By late 2003, he made contact with Excella Gionne of Tricell to discuss a future alliance. He gave her information from Umbrella's stolen archives so she could work her way up the company and gain more power, something he could exploit in later years. By 2004, Wesker invited Ada to join The Organisation once more (Ada is an independant contractor, she hires herself out to many different organsations.) Ada accepts Wesker's offer but the rulers of The Organisation do not trust her. By this point they also want rid of Wesker because he is becoming too powerful. They give Ada and ultimatum: prove her loyalty to them by betraying Wesker and sending them the Dominant Plaga sample instead. This is what she does at the end of RE4. Wesker is disappointed by Ada's betrayal but he expected it and had a contingency plan in the form of Jack Krauser's body. 

From 2004-2006, Wesker searched tirelessly for Spencer and drained The Organisation's resources looking for him. (Whether he did this on purpose because of their betrayal of him is unknown.) 2006 - Wesker finds Spencer, fakes his death again and joins Tricell full time. The Organisation now believe him to be dead and they are too weak to compete and eventually collapse. All this is sourced from Archives 2, Biohazard 4 Kaitaishinsho and Bio6 Graphical Guide book. There isn't a single source that suggests Wesker formed his own organisation.

3. Not sure what your third point is. But I've already said Neo-Umbrella was exclusively Carla's organisation. Simmons has no knowledge of it. Carla continued to work with Simmons up until the Tall Oaks incident but was working secretly behind his back for Neo-Umbrella all along. 

Never trust the resident evil wiki. Reading that is probably why your so confused about 6. Every game leaves us with lingering questions which is great for debate, but 6 everything is pretty much explained.


April 15, 2014 at 7:38 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Xarls
Moderator
Posts: 203

Now we are much more clear! In the previous post you mentioned Neo-Umbrella as being Carla´s and Simmons´s.

There is one thing I don´t understand, if the organisation wanted to get rid of Wesker in 2004. How could they let him drain their money looking for Spencer after the Los Ganados incident? That´s why I think Wesker left the Organisation in 2004 and used his own resources/organisation.

April 16, 2014 at 3:45 AM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
Moderator
Posts: 308

I never said Neo-Umbrella was Carla's and Simmons. Read it again.

The Organisation wanted rid of Wesker because he was becomig too powerful. He was described as 'An uncntrollable spark that could burn The Organisation from within.' It was because he had that power and influence that they couldn't just dispose of them.

Biohazard 5 file says "Wesker used all of his organisation's power, money and time, and finally discovered Spencer's location."

Biohazard 6 file says "Afterwards the organisation Wesker belonged to collapsed, and Wesker himself was killed by the BSAA led by Chris Redfield in 2009."

That's all the evidence we have. The Organisation has sadly pretty much been forgotten about and is unlikely to have any real conclusion so this is the only way we can go.

There is no evidence to suggest that Wesker formed his own organisation, despite what it might say in the RE Wiki. Its an outdated theory, one I believed myself for a while but no longer. There's no sources saying Wesker formed his own organisation and nothing to suggest he ever did.

The Organisation/3rd Organisation are the same thing. The Japanese guidebooks (written by the game's development teams) confirm it.

April 16, 2014 at 5:52 AM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
Moderator
Posts: 308

Also, he joins Tricell full time in 2006 after his second  'death' so he could work in secret. He didn't join Tricell in 2004 for three reasons:

1. He couldn't. The alliance would be exposed by Ada and The Organisation. Remember they already knew he'd secretly contacted him in 2003.

2. He needed to wait until Excella Gionne had built up a position of power within Tricell before he could join and exploit them. He only provided her with info on Umbrella's viruses in late 2003. She needed time to work her way up. 2004 was too early.

3. He didn't need to. Back then, Wesker's goal was still to create his own 'umbrella' and was going to use The Organisation to do this. Tricell was simply a future alliance he could use when he needed them, much the same way he made a deal with Javier to acquire a large business share. However, when Project Wesker tugged him to seek out Spencer once more and he learned of his true plans. His focus switched to Uroboros and he cashed in that Tricell link then because he needed to find the African lab to get to the Progenitor Virus.

April 16, 2014 at 6:07 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Xarls
Moderator
Posts: 203

I just read again, you were right, you didn´t say Neo-Umbrella was Carla´s and Simmon´s, I missunderstood that.

Pretty clear now, sure Wesker likes to betray people, this far he has betrayed:

- The S.T.A.R.S

- Umbrella

- Organisation

- Tricell

- Excella

Am I missing someone else?


April 16, 2014 at 7:10 AM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
Moderator
Posts: 308

I'm sure there would have been others. Wesker was only ever looking out for himself. But the list you mentioned has all the key players. 

I'm sure he would have exploited Javier too had he survived the events of Amparo.

April 16, 2014 at 7:58 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Yuan-The-11th
Moderator
Posts: 140

Not to intrude, but I agree your list has the key players.

I would like to mention while Albert was an executive officer candidate at the Umbrella Management Training Facility he was favored by Dr. James Marcus only to later betray Marcus at the request of Oswell E. Spencer.

Also after Oswell was betrayed by Alex, Oswell arranged for Albert to meet himself in person, perhaps in the hopes that Albert would work under him to help him catch Alex, however Oswell bragged to much and Albert killed him in rage.

Further more I think you made a good point of listing Tricell Inc. and Excella separately since by cooperating on Uroborus with Albert, Excella had betrayed Tricell Inc., only to be betrayed herself by her beloved Albert.

April 16, 2014 at 8:47 AM Flag Quote & Reply

George Trevor
Site Owner
Posts: 1087

@ Yuan-The-11th : You are far from intruding; welcome to Crimson Head Elder's Forum, it's great t have you resident here.

@TheBatman : Now I know who to ask to write our Wesker Report section biography/Wesker time-line!

--

Jessica... Lisa... Forgive me. May god justify my death in exchange for your safety.

April 16, 2014 at 2:31 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Xarls
Moderator
Posts: 203

Yuan-The-11th at April 16, 2014 at 8:47 AM

Not to intrude, but I agree your list has the key players.

I would like to mention while Albert was an executive officer candidate at the Umbrella Management Training Facility he was favored by Dr. James Marcus only to later betray Marcus at the request of Oswell E. Spencer.

Also after Oswell was betrayed by Alex, Oswell arranged for Albert to meet himself in person, perhaps in the hopes that Albert would work under him to help him catch Alex, however Oswell bragged to much and Albert killed him in rage.

Further more I think you made a good point of listing Tricell Inc. and Excella separately since by cooperating on Uroborus with Albert, Excella had betrayed Tricell Inc., only to be betrayed herself by her beloved Albert.

You are right, we have to add Marcus to the list, another key player. Betraying him caused the Mansion Incident.

And Alex betrayed Spencer...Weskers are really artists when it comes to betrayal.

April 16, 2014 at 7:44 PM Flag Quote & Reply

You must login to post.