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Forum Home > BIRKIN'S LABORATORY > In defence of Las Plagas

TheBatMan
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Posts: 304



Personally I felt that the introduction of Las Plagas back in the day was an excellent addition and a refreshing change to the t-Virus and its variants after so many games. But although not to everyone's taste I am surprised at the general hatred these parasites get from the overall fanbase. Parasites represent an excellent template for a biological weapon, especially given the way they are able to control their hosts with obidience being a key trait Umbrella scientists were always looking for in their products. What made the earlier Resident Evil games appealing is that its many creatures were based on real-life science, admittedly very loosely, but real science nonetheless. Whilst I can appreciate some of the creatures derived from the Plaga would seem more at home in Middle Earth than biohazard, the core parasites themselves and the way they work are wholly reminiscant of natural real-world organisms, as evidenced by Luis Sera's memos. I simply don't get it when people label the Plagas as 'alien' or 'too fantastical.' Resident Evil is at its best when it takes a real-life scientific concept and simply says 'what-if'? and the Plaga firmly fits into that catagory and deserves another look.


Have a read of this and then tell me Las Plagas has no place in this series. It basically follows the same characteristics, but exaggerates them to be suitable for human hosts.



February 28, 2018 at 1:33 PM Flag Quote & Reply

EvilResident
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Posts: 101
Las Plagas doesn't bother me as a parasite able to control hosts. I really like the concept. What bothers me is how it seems to break the lore in that it can mutate hosts and create monsters on par with BOWs Umbrella took decades to create. Worse yet, it cheapens the significance of the Progenitor Virus. RE gets away with some crazy things simply because the "DNA mutation attribute" allows host cells to be rewritten on the most basic level. It's the building block of life, and destroys any boundaries in the creation of artificial organisms. To suddenly throw in another mutagen able to achieve such similar results ruins that, and effectively breaks my enjoyment of the lore. Like a superhero franchise, where every character turns a corner and suddenly gets super powers "just because". HOWEVER, the murals in RE5 seem to indicate a connection between the virus and the parasite. If that's the case, it effectively repairs any issues and makes Las Plagas a nice part of the story. My theory is the Plaga are descendants of parasitic creatures infected by the virus and mutated in a manner similar to Marcus' Leeches. The parallels between the two are noteworthy - both are parasites that developed a social nature, a Queen, a tendency to mimic behavior, and a weakness to UV light. The Outbreak Leeches literally control a human host. Las Plagas may also be related to plants via viral recombination. The Queen is compared to a plant, and Las Plagas look as if they are being harvested from something resembling a tree in a mural. It also explains the two independence methods of reproduction: spores and eggs. EDIT: Sorry, my paragraphs still aren't working.
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March 1, 2018 at 2:23 AM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
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Posts: 304

To be honest I think that the problem with the Plaga in that respect is more of a gameplay one because an RE game needs its diverse creatures at the end of the day. I know it's preferable to have a story explanation for everything but sometimes it just doesn't work that way. Shinji Mikami was obviously influenced by Lord of the Rings and therefore wanted Leon to fight a cave troll. How said troll was created obviously didn't matter to him.


The creatures in 4 are explained by gene splicing using the Plaga as a vector to introduce its genetic material into the host's cells and therefore change them. Again this is a bit flimsy, but it's something at least. And RE4 shows us plenty of evidence of these experiments, successful and failed. I tend to look at it from the other side of the coin to yourself and view the natural abilities of the Plaga as having more potential than something artificially engineered like the t-Virus. Progenitor may be a natural RNA virus and what is appealing about the Plaga is it is also a natural organism, albeit an actual complex life form with similar abilities. The fact it has so much natural potential is why a relatively insignificant group like the Los Illuminados attained such great power and were able to create B.O.W.s in such a relatively short space of time. Umbrella had the tools and resources to engineer and perfect a virus capable of creating deadly biological weapons, whereas a cult with no resources and no real scientific expertise were able to pull off pretty much the same feat because they possessed a natural organism that required no engineering and already possessing the traits Umbrella so desired. That's what I like about it and is what makes the Plaga so appealing for military application.


It's a cool theory you're suggesting there, but I don't believe there is a specific link between Progenitor and the Plagas. I think the Plaga drawings on the RE5 murals are simply an explanation as to what wiped the Ndipaya out. Many of the murals show the tribe worshipping the flowers and we know of their history with that from the RE5 background file. But when you have such a powerful kingdom and Progenitor humans running round, it is going to take a powerful force to take them down and make them completely abandon their sacred home. I think the Plaga answers that question. They unearthed a Plaga queen from deep down and infected livestock and captured wildlife which became the tentacle beasts represented on the murals that eventually turned on their masters. The RE5 art book mentions an 'Ancient BOW' that at one point Chris and Sheva were to fight in the ruins so it seems obvious to me the tribe were trying to create B.O.W.s to take down their enemies. But ultimately the Ndipaya kingdom was destroyed by these tentacle beasts which ultimately then hunted each other to extinction when all other food sources were depleted. 


Your connection theory between Progenitor and the Plaga is interesting if you are suggesting Progenitor is what gives the Plaga its mutation attributes. However, if the Plagas did originate in Africa and were influenced by the virus in the plants to enhance their abilities and make them into what they are today, this doesn't explain how another Plaga Queen was dug up in Europe some centuries later possessing the same exact traits. For me this pretty much disproves any Progenitor link and affirms they are just a naturally occurring species without any external tinkering. 


I'm actually not a fan of the whole Plaga origins with the Ndipaya in 5. It kind of cheapens the whole ordeal of RE4 and the struggle of getting the Plaga across to Africa when we are told they are indigeneous to Europe. It's a hell of a coincidence to unleash the Plaga in Kijuju when they have supposedly been slumbering there all along. 

March 1, 2018 at 8:49 AM Flag Quote & Reply

EvilResident
Member
Posts: 101
My concern is solely based on the parasites ability to mutate hosts, especially as fantastically as it does. Having the parasite be that powerful naturally just makes Progenitor less significant. I can tolerate a lot of wild things in RE, as long as they remain linked to the single, crucial fictional element in the virus capable of remaking life (considering it actually created life in the first place). It also serves as a constant in the story. It was unearthed in Spain, yes, but they were put there by the Salazar family. We don't know where Los Iluminados got it from. The ruins on the island feature cult symbols, along with murals similar to the Ndipaya ones. Their title, "illuminated", could even be a reference to the sun. The presence of Plaga in Ndipaya culture is just too significant to be that pointless. Why not have ancient BOWs just made from the virus? Instead, they deliberately used the obscure Plaga. It's related to gameplay, but that's no excuse to break the lore when there are ways around it. Mikami doesn't come across as someone who particularly cares about the story. This way, they get to link everything together, while still introducing a cool new concept.
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March 1, 2018 at 10:47 AM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
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Posts: 304

I honestly don't think it does. The original form of the parasites don't really mutate the host that much. Humans look the same, as do dogs and other wild animals. Its just the size of the emerging parasites that are deliberately over-exaggerated. Gene splicing would explain more disfigured creatures like the Regeneradors and Novistadors. Bigger mutations like Irving are down to the Dominant Species Plaga which were artificially engineered. 


I would suggest 'illuminated' refers more to being enlightened in a religious sense then any form of sun worship. The Plaga inclusion in the Ndipaya culture isn't pointless if it provides an answer as to why they were wiped out. Its still possible the Ancient BOWs are just a result of animals being fed the Progenitor flowers, but if that were the case then the presence of the Plaga drawings on the murals is completely pointless. The tenatacles on the creatures depicted are also very reminiciant of a Plaga mutation.


The original Illuminados were native to that Southern European region so the original Plaga queen they found had to have come from there. This queen would also have to pre-date the one found by the Ndipaya if that was what wiped them out (an event that happened after Henry Travis' observations.) Then some centuries later a further queen (or the original revived) was dug up underneath Salazar castle. This rules out any link to Progenitor. 

March 1, 2018 at 1:41 PM Flag Quote & Reply

EvilResident
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Posts: 101
The fact Las Plagas was what wiped out the Ndipaya and not virus mutants is enough to imply a connection, otherwise why bother connect the two? Especially since all the murals in the Sun Garden relate to the flower. Las Plagas makes hosts who bond well practically bullet proof, with glowing red eyes. The fact a cult in rural Spain is able to create things like the super power granting Dominant Strain or a humanoid BOW able to regenerate entire limbs in seconds in such a short amount of time breaks the lore unless Progenitor is somehow involved. The virus is the one constant in this series. I don't recall Henry's exhibition happening before the fall of the Ndipaya either, but I will double check. Even if the dates don't match, Progenitor isn't native to Africa - it could create similar organisms elsewhere. And we know next to nothing about the origins of the cult and how they first encountered the parasite, although they built ruins on the island complete with murals indicating an ancient culture, possibly related to the Ndipaya. A splinter group, perhaps, that migrated to Spain and absorbed European culture. EDIT: Henry detailed the legend surrounding the ritual, nothing more. The Ndipaya are very old.
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March 1, 2018 at 11:05 PM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
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Posts: 304

Why does it have to imply a connection? Progenitor is what made these people powerful, therefore they need a powerful force to wipe them out, or at least make them abandon their sacred kingdom, and the Plaga is that force. The fact you have the Los Illuminados discovering the Plaga in a completely different continent is proof enough for me they have zero connection to the virus. 


The virus doesn't have to be a constant at all. I don't see the issue with having a natural RNA virus capable of extreme mutation, and a natural parasite with similar traits? How does that harm the lore exactly? The only difference is one is a virus and one is a parasite. Ada Wong herself said she believed the parasites were ancient. Watch the video in the article I linked above. The zombie fungus takes over the cells and completely controls the ant but leaves the brain unaffected so they are actually aware they are being taken over. It then makes them walk up to the tops of the trees, then mutates and produces a huge great stalk out of their brains that then rains down thousands of spores onto the the ground below, infecting any creatures lurking within its radius. That alone could be the template for the perfect Umbrella BOW, yet it is real life. 


And until something tell us otherwise, Progenitor does appear native to Africa. In primordial earth the virus helped develop the building blocks that shaped the first life forms sure, but since that time and the continents split and formed, the virus appears to only manifest itself in Africa, as evidenced by Brandon Bailey's experiments. Umbrella managed to artificially culture it from the late 1980s onwards, but the actual source point remained exclusive and Spencer knew that which is why he had it hidden away.The fact Progenitor can only be sourced from Africa forms the whole basis of Resident Evil 5.


We know the Los Illuminados encountered the parasite centuries ago in Southern Europe and that they were disbanded by the first Castellan, so that would be a couple of centuries give or take. 


Henry Travis witnessed the Ndipaya and their rituals around the Sun Flower. Therefore, they had to have been wiped out sometime after his expedition. His expeditions to Africa spanned 34 years across the 1800s. 


March 2, 2018 at 5:53 AM Flag Quote & Reply

EvilResident
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Posts: 101
It implies a connection because adding them in is otherwise pointless, as they could just as easily have virus mutants destroy the kingdom. The murals are in the sun garden itself, and all of them relate to the flower. To say that doesn't imply a connection between the two is being very selective. As I said, the origins of Los Iluminados are left completely obscure. Them being based in Spain doesn't prove anything, as people tend to migrate, and RE5 was the one to retcon in the Plaga origins by establishing a link to Africa. The parasites are obviously ancient, and so are the Ndipaya. Speaking of the tribe, they performed rituals involving the flower after the fall of the kingdom anyway. Besides, his account likely came from stories obtained from speaking with the locals. The kingdom is obviously very old, otherwise the city's location wouldn't have been such a well kept secret from the rest of the world, considering how widespread they apparently were. Probably older than a mere few centuries. Progenitor could have originated from anywhere - the flower is simply the only known modern host to contain it, with some environmental factor aiding in it's emergence. Although a link between Los Iluminados and the Ndipaya is more likely. As I said, if Los Plagas was simply able to control host behavior, it would be fine. But to say a rural cult was able to create super humans, giant monsters, limb regenerating creatures, etc within a mere fraction of the time it took the powerful Umbrella to make anything useful doesn't cheapen the lore or the virus is ridiculous. Much more than Carla solving issues of brain cell rejection with t-02 or Uroboros only taking three years for Wesker to create. Yes, the Progenitor Virus is the only constant in this series, as everything leads back to and revolves around it.
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March 2, 2018 at 6:56 AM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
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Posts: 304

Adding them is not pointless if it depicts how they were wiped out. The murals show this - by showing quadrupedal creatures with tentacles attacking them, very similar to the Comillos from RE4. If Progenitor creatures wiped them out, then the inclusion of the Plaga on the murals is pointless. If the developers wanted a link to the Plaga and Progenitor it didn't have to be linked to the Ndipaya and could simply have been explained in a background file. 


The Los Illuminados being based in Spain is very significant, because its nowhere near Africa for a start. The games and all supplemental material tell us Progenitor is only sourced from Africa, Saying otherwise at this point without anything to back it up is just trying to force a link to make your theory possible. A large part of the backstory for 5 is based around the concept the virus can only manifest in Africa and nothing released since then has changed this fact. And the Ndipaya were a very secretive people who tended not to stare their existence with anybody, so they are not exactly going to tell locals their practices. And likewise Henry Travis was trying to create a factual encyclopedia of the continent, I highly doubt he would risk his reputation by documenting such fantastical accounts if they were only stories told to him by locals. It's pretty obvious he saw these rituals first hand, and witnessed the wonderous effects on the adapters. That's why he was willing to stake his reputation because he'd seen them first hand. He knew they were real.


The Ndipya reveal to the modern world only largely came about after they abandoned their kingdom. They also didn't perform rituals involving the flower after the fall of their kingdom because they had abandoned it. Teenagers were sent in to protect the sun garden and flowers for 2 years as part of a manhood ritual and that was it. Henry Travis viewed their flower rituals first hand, and at the location of their kingdom because it was his notes and descriptions that led Spencer and later Tricell to the exact site. 


A link between the Ndipaya and Los Illuminados is just a complete stab in the dark. On one hand you have an African tribe, living underground in complete secrecy in Africa with a history and underground city dating back to prehistoric times. On the other you have a small religious cult engaged in dark practices based in Southern Europe. What is this 'obvious' connection you speak of? Because they both have a sun on their murals?


The Los Illuminados being able to create feats in a short space of time that look Umbrella years and years is simply down to the natural properties of the parasite. The Plaga already had the natural potential but that same potential took Umbrella years to accomplish because they had to do it via artificial means. It's not ridiculous at all. The potential of the parasite was obvious right from the start, which is why Wesker tried to get them as soon as he heard of their existence. 


March 2, 2018 at 7:33 AM Flag Quote & Reply

EvilResident
Member
Posts: 101
The obvious connection is between Progenitor and Las Plagas. The connection between the Ndipaya and Los Iluminados is entirely theory/speculation. I only referenced Progenitor cropping up elsewhere as a possibility, not a solid foundation for my entire argument. I also am not arguing the mural mutants aren't Plaga - based; I am saying why would the developers put the Plaga there when the obvious choice would have been to use virus mutants? For the same reason it's in the chamber dedicated to the flower - to hint at a connection between the two. Henry mentioning the flower ritual doesn't mean he saw it - as you said, the Ndipaya were secretive, so why on earth would he be allowed to watch something like that? The cult connection theory (which isn't even my main point) relies heavily on the ruins found on the island in RE4, which feature similar murals as well as the insignia of the cult. You keep insisting the Plaga must be native to Spain, yet also acknowledge their presence in Africa based on the murals. It's obvious they have been to both locations - question is, at what point. We also know Progenitor was heavily involved in the development of life, from land to sea. That means it got around at some point. The parasite having the natural potential to give super powers and grant regenerating limbs is indeed ridiculous. Wesker tried to get it because it was a valuable bioweapon, like he would any creature created by a virus.
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March 2, 2018 at 9:04 AM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
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Posts: 304

How is it obvious there is a connection between Progenitor and Las Plagas when all the evidence points to the contrary? How can that connection exist if the Plagas in their natural form have been unearthed and used in a completely seperate continent where there is no Progenitor Virus source point? That alone rules out any connection.


I'm not saying Henry was allowed to watch their rituals, evidently he wouldn't be. But there are loads of possibilities. He could have stumbled on the kingdom completely be chance via an alternate route in the mountain and be able to observe them from up on high undetected. Who knows? He was an explorer and it doesn't really matter but it stands to reason you would not stake your reputation and document such fantastical claims if you had not witnessed them yourself. Would you go on record and claim you have proof the Loch Ness Monster existed if you had not seen it up close and personal yourself? Regardless the point remains he must have seen these things before the kingdom was abandoned.


The cult connection based on a mural is a pretty weak link, surely you can see that? I don't insist the Plaga is native to Spain, obviously it isn't if it was also unearthed in Africa. But the very fact it was found in Europe discounts a link to the Progenitor Virus which is in Africa. If you want to entertain your theory by making up connections between the cult and the tribe and suggesting Southern Europe may also coincidentally have a Progenitor Virus source point then knock yourself out, I won't stop you. 


Progenitor helped shape life on primordial earth millions of years ago back when all land was just one big mass. The continents have formed and split since that time. Again, as of right now all materials and sources suggest Progenitor is only available in Africa. 


The parasite is no more ridiculous than a virus being able to completely regenerate someone from just a single tissue fragment. Las Plagas follow the blueprint of real-world parasites and their mutations are explained with gene splicing and using the parasite as a vector, just as how many Umbrella B.O.W.s were created using the t-Virus as a vector to splice the DNA of different creatures. 



March 2, 2018 at 9:35 AM Flag Quote & Reply

CC
Member
Posts: 111

Interesting...

I am probably one of the biggest bitches in the RE community as I like to pick things apart with very little mercy shown. Occupational hazard so please forgive me. However, in this instance, I can back up with real life examples. As Batman said the science behind Biohazard has been loose. If you dig deep enough though you can find logic.


Here are a few examples of real life parasites that control their hosts. The second one has appeared on humorous zombie apocalypse causes lists.


Hymenoepimecis argyraphaga - a wasp that lays its eggs in a spider's abdomen. Weeks after hatching they inject a chemical into the spider that makes it build an awesome web. They suck the spider dry and use this awesome web for its cocoon.


Toxoplasma gondii - infects rats and causes them to go against their nature to stay away from cats. The parasite needs to be in the cat's guts to propagate. So the rat is made suicidal, basically. This parasite in recent years has been associated with a host of problems for humans. Depression, suicidal tendencies, alzheimer's, etc. Have you hugged your cat today?


Dicrocoelium dendriticum: a lancet liver fluke that spends its life in the liver of grazing mammals - cows. It lays its eggs and is excreted and eaten by snails. The eggs hatch in the snail's digestive system causing a defense mechanism (their intent) in the snail to produce "fluke" slime basically that coats the snail and can now be eaten by an ant. At night the flukes take control of the ant and make it climb up grass blades where they can be eaten. If the ant is still alive by dawn (not having been eaten) the flukes release their control because sunlight can kill this parasite. This continues until the ant IS eaten. The process starts all over again.


Myrmeconema neotropicum - a nematode that gets into black ants causing their bum to swell and become red. This also makes the ant sluggish and resemble red berries which attracts birds to eat them.


Spinochordodes tellinii - a nematomorph hairworm that infects crickets and grasshoppers. Eaten from infested water and once the larvae develop and hatch they produce a mind controlling chemical that takes over the insects nervous system. They cause the insects to kill themselves by jumping into water where they drown and new nematomorphs can be produced.


Glyptapanteles sp. - another parasitic wasp that infects caterpillars.The adult wasp lays its eggs in baby caterpillars where they mature together. Once full grown they emerge from the caterpillar and pupate nearby. The reason why is they have somehow influenced a sort of Stockholm Syndrome in the caterpillar and they protect the pupating wasps from predators.


Leucochloridium paradoxum - a parasitic flatworm that develops in the digestive tract of bird's. Once its eggs are laid they are secreted by the bird they are eaten by snails. In the larval stage they travel through the snails digestive tract, reproduce and grow into long tubes, which then spread into the snails eyestalks. They pulse green and yellow so they resemble caterpillars which birds love to eat. Mind control factor is to make the snail go against its natural inclination for the dark. Instead the seek out the light where the tubes twitch to attract birds.


Ophiocordyceps unilateralis - a fungus that infects carpenter ants and makes them go against their nature for the treetops and instead to climb down to lower leaves where the ant clamps down its mandibles until it dies. The fungus consumes the ant's tissues, except its mandible muscles, which it controls so it can continue growing. The fungal spores can then fall to the forest floor and be eaten by more ants. (Often called "Zombie Ants").

 

Sacculina carcini - barnacle swimming larva that seek out crab hosts. The female larva attaches herself to the crabs under shell and forms roots or tentacles that withdraw nutrients from its host. Then the male larva attaches himself to the female larva where they reproduce. The crab stops growing and is forced to take care of the barnacles eggs.


These exist in our very own world, and many, many, more. Las Plagas is extremely plausible. I had other issues with RE4, but the Las Plagas was not one.

March 2, 2018 at 9:01 PM Flag Quote & Reply

EvilResident
Member
Posts: 101
Henry mentioned the legends. That's it. Saying he infiltrated the large kindom and stumbled across the enclosed chamber that would be guarded is reaching. The Ndipaya are clearly ancient. My statements regarding the cult are simply ideas to entertain - not concrete conclusions. Somehow, Las Plagas was in Africa and Spain. Question is how it got from one to the other. Modifying the parasite doesn't mean it should somehow be able to mutate organisms. There is no logic to it. A virus being able to rewrite cells is plausable. I have a crying baby to attend to, so I'll leave it there for now.
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March 2, 2018 at 11:17 PM Flag Quote & Reply

News Bot
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Posts: 94

Henry conducted his research long after the Ndipaya Kingdom fell, and long after the Plaga probably existed there. The fact that the only time it appears is in the oldest mural, alongside a purple tree-thing that additionally isn't referenced anywhere else, suggests CAPCOM had a lot more Ndipaya history written but left it out with only mural references.


I don't see a problem having a virus, parasite and now a fungus with similar mutagenic properties, not to mention that ancient whale virus as well as The Abyss Virus. However I would be super pleased if the Plaga and perhaps the "virus-accentuated Mold" were both byproducts of the Progenitor Virus. But we will need confirmation from 5's writers concerning the relationship between the Ndipaya, Plaga and perhaps that purple tree too.


In regards to the purple tree, it's quite possibly the original host of the Progenitor Virus (at the time the Ndipaya found it). I personally get "Tree of Life" vibes from it. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_life) Then through centuries it passed on to the Sonnentreppe and became ingestible.

March 3, 2018 at 11:03 AM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
Member
Posts: 304

Those parasite examples are really cool. Traits could be taken from each of theose to form the perfect biological weapon and it shows the Plagas are not as far fetched as people think.


Henry did witness the Ndipaya, I don't see how you can doubt that considering his whole reputation was ruined because people didn't believe his claims and he later died from depression. I say again, you don't go on record about such fantastical things without having witnessed them yourself.


Why shouldn't a parasite be able to mutate organisms? There's plenty logic to it if it enables the parasite to spread to another host. Genetic tampering only further aids the process. A virus being able to rewrite cells is plausible, but a creature being able to mutate spontaneously and grow several times its original mass in a matter of seconds is definitely not. The process is just exaggerated for the purposes of gameplay.


Sometimes you just have to step back and remember we're playing video games here and certain situations like the need for boss fights and enemy variation overtake the logic of the story. It definitely isn't 'lore-breaking.'

March 3, 2018 at 11:16 AM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
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Posts: 304

Those parasite examples are really cool. Traits could be taken from each of theose to form the perfect biological weapon and it shows the Plagas are not as far fetched as people think.


Henry did witness the Ndipaya, I don't see how you can doubt that considering his whole reputation was ruined because people didn't believe his claims and he later died from depression. I say again, you don't go on record about such fantastical things without having witnessed them yourself.


Why shouldn't a parasite be able to mutate organisms? There's plenty logic to it if it enables the parasite to spread to another host by modifying its cells. Genetic tampering only further aids the process. A virus being able to rewrite cells is plausible, but as a result a creature being able to mutate spontaneously and grow several times its original mass in a matter of seconds is definitely not. The basic science, just like the concept of the Plaga, is there, but the process and end result is just massively exaggerated for the purposes of gameplay.


Sometimes you just have to step back and remember we're playing video games here and certain situations like the need for boss fights and enemy variation overtake the logic of the story. But it certainly isn't 'lore-breaking.'

March 3, 2018 at 11:16 AM Flag Quote & Reply

EvilResident
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Posts: 101
Your assurtions about Henry are just as much speculation as anything else, and it creates problems on it's own. Of course the end results are overly fantastical with the virus, but that is chalked up to the unknown element found in Progenitor capable turning known science on it's head. To have the same effects in another, totally unrelated mutagen, and one with no known way of affecting hosts on the cellular level (it's a bit big to penetrate cells) just undermines the significance of Progenitor. That's what bothers me most, honestly - everything in this series stems from and revolves around the virus, with the events of everything set in motion with it's discovery and Spencer's plans with it. It's the only constant in the series. To make myself clear, I like Las Plagas, and have no problem with it being able to naturaly control hosts. But when it begins to compete with the virus and even outperform it, it just makes everything else feel less special. I'm well aware it's a game series, and I can suspend my disbelief plenty (after all, I'm on board with something as unbelievable as the return of Umbrella, literal immortality, and autonomous Mold). I've noticed the word "obvious" thrown out a lot in these discussions, so it's clear much of this is based on interpretation. If you see the murals as not being indicative of any deeper significance than that, or are fine with the mutations shown in Plaga hosts, then fine. Just as how my seeing things differently is fine.
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March 3, 2018 at 11:48 AM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
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Posts: 304

It creates no problems whatsoever. He observed the rituals and documented them first hand. His findings were supposed to rock the scientific community but instead he was discredited and he later died of depression. It was only a visionary like Spencer that recognised his findings for what they were and realised the answer lay in science rather than any magical powers bespowed on them by gods. Henry also had to have seen these rituals before the Ndipaya abandoned their kingdom otherwise his books could not have led Spencer and co to the exact location of the sun garden. It all fits like a glove to me and I'm not sure what problems you are referring to. A claim that he witnessed these things first hand is not quite as outlandish as suggesting there is a clear link between the Ndipaya and the Los Illuminados just because they both have a mural with a sun on it. 


I still don't see why the Plaga being natural is such a big issue. it in no way limits the potential or undermines the Progenitor Virus. The base Plagas grew from microscopic spores ingested from inside the body so there's no issue there with infecting hosts on a cellular level. Likewise the artificial Nemesis parasite was injected into the spinal cord on a cellar level before growing so it's not unheard of in the series. The Plagas have also evolved over thousands of years, inheriting individial traits from the numerous host organisms they have taken over. But at the same time they do not outperform Progenitor. They can't grant immortality for the start - and that concept is the 'constant' you keep referring to.


The return of Umbrella is a different thing and that sort of thing does undermine the story in my opinion because it was plainly brought back just for nostalgic purposes. I'm aware this is another discussion but there was absolutely no need for the PMC in 7 to be Umbrella. That's the point, just as there was no need for Chris to be the player character. Both those elements were brought in for familiarity, nostalgia and to appease fans by creating a link to the older titles rather than any necessary story development, and in doing so they had to create giant leaps of logic that not a lot of people are happy with. In the case of the Plaga, a change was needed at the time to keep the series fresh, and a parasite able to take control of a host is a good substitute for a virus. But the game still required diverse enemies and the more bizarre mutations are put down to genetic tampering. It's really no big deal. It's fine if you don't like it, but it's a bit of a stretch to suggest it breaks the lore. 

March 3, 2018 at 12:31 PM Flag Quote & Reply

EvilResident
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Posts: 101
It undermines everything else, while something like BU isn't too difficult in retrospect to fit in (It has a bit more meaning than just nostalgia pandering, as you should know, considering the resurrected plot points from RE4 and UC, and to a degree even RE1). Chris DID serve a purpose in RE7, as it establishes his relationship with the group and Veronica for future titles to build on, as well as giving us the stance of the BSAA on BU. I only mentioned BU as a recent example of my suspending my disbelief. The Sun Garden was deep in the center of a sprawling underground kingdom, in an inclosed chamber. The Ndipaya had to survive a series of elaborate traps to enter, and what amounted to their idol would be heavily guarded. But apparently Henry found a back door the entire kingdom missed? Henry's work was a vast collection, and it allowed Travis Trading to become a juggernaught just fine without the flower, likely added in as a supposed legend amongst the tribals, perhaps even with theories from Henry. And what proof would Henry find anyway if he was present for a ceremony other than the flower is toxic (unless you're suggesting he just so happened to witness someone adapt)? What intrigued Spencer were the legends, something TRICELL overlooked because Henry never backed the legends up with some first hand account. Nemesis secreted the t-Virus, which is what led to host mutation. Las Plagas usually enters as an egg, or even while fully grown, yet that doesn't stop the dominant strain from creating giant monsters. Immortality is a concept - I wouldn't consider it the constant that everthing builds on. Besides, as you said, Las Plagas hasn't been tied into that. So much of this is based on preference, and it doesn't seem to be going anywhere, so let's just agree to disagree.
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Body Horror Enthusiast
March 4, 2018 at 2:56 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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Henry encountered the Ndipaya and observed remnants of the Sonnentreppe ceremony as traces could be seen in a festival the Ndipaya performed once a year to comfort the souls of their ancestors. This was long, long, long after the kingdom itself fell and the Ndipaya had already long since settled in the marshlands. Henry did not document the underground royal city, which is why Spencer and co. spent three months searching for it despite knowing about the Ndipaya. If he did, Travis Trading Enterprises would have raided it long before Umbrella.


"The Plagas have also evolved over thousands of years, inheriting individial traits from the numerous host organisms they have taken over."


Source?

March 4, 2018 at 10:41 AM Flag Quote & Reply

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