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Forum Home > BIRKIN'S LABORATORY > What happened at Spencer Mansion?

Sonny Bauer
Member
Posts: 57
I will not disagree that there may be duplicates of the keys and the existence of a skeleton key. All of those theories are interesting, could be possible, but I just donĂ??t like to lock myself in on the narrative being dependent on how the game portrays it. I guess it works both ways really.
October 3, 2017 at 3:17 PM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
Member
Posts: 252
Sergei and Ivan left the mansion before Richard was injured. None of the mansion doors are yale locks that lock automatically. The entire mechanic should be written off because that's exactly what it is. It's a gameplay device because we are playing a video game. Whats next, a plot justification of why enemies dissolve into a pile of bullets when killed? Barry is found inside a locked door in the mansion where he could not possibly have a key. Wesker is down in the lab despite the elevator being on the top floor, powered down and even out of fuel for the generator. In Revelations, Raymond is somehow locked inside the comms room even though a barred gate is down on the other side of the door and the only key is in possession of the Skagdead. There are countless other examples across pretty much every game in the series. Thats more than sufficient to prove they are a gameplay device, just like the top floor of the magic elevator.
October 4, 2017 at 5:00 AM Flag Quote & Reply

BSAArklay
Moderator
Posts: 604

The doors may not have the ability to automatically lock but they can be locked via an individual hence the "This door is locked from the otherside." It is possible that Barry locked himself inside the Bee Specimen room so he would not be disturb when destroying the evidence. Wesker could have made it down to the lab and had Barry purposely empty an remaing power in the lift to give him time to extract the data. A sabotage if you will, the lift is on the top floor because Barry and Wesker went into the labs. Wesker gave Barry the orders to drain the power from the lift so Barry rode the lift back up and then did so. Very simple explanations rather than dismissing 50% of what actually take's place in the game. The Sergei thing is correct so that theory cannot be used but the other two I just gave are possible theories.


Same can be said for all the other games. I don't have theories for those as I haven't looked into them like I have the mansion but I am sure there are possibilities and explanations for each example. As far as the dissappearing enemies go well yes that one is a gameplay mechanic that cannot be explained and is simply due to not having the mansion plastered in downed enemies due to game data limitations. The difference is the plot of the game is not revolved around dissappearing enemies, the locked doors is a large part of the plot otherwise what is stopping Jill/Chris entering the mansion and going immediatley underneath the stairs into the chamber for Jessica Trevor and down into the labs. That make's less sense to me than a few locked doors.

--

"I've had enough of your bullshit! Your just another one of Umbrella's leftovers"

October 4, 2017 at 1:22 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Sonny Bauer
Member
Posts: 57

I tend to lean more with TheBatMan on this, although I definitely admire your imagination BSAArklay, definitely some interesting theories on the elevator without power. I don't personally believe that Wesker would instruct Barry to drain the power for the elevator because then if Barry were to be compromised or killed, he would leave Wesker with No means of escape and if you're thinking of bringing up ventilation shafts and the like, I still don't buy it because why would Wesker want his objective to be more complicated? I can agree that locked doors are part of the plot, but they'e mostly the gameplay design. They integrate into the plot, but it's not perfect. The window in RE3 that Nemesis smashes through is a bigger and different design of a window than the one that appears in RE2, and that is the day before. It can't be more than a convenience to use that section of the game to have Nemesis pop up. No way am I buying that after Jill escaped the RPD, that between then and before Leon and Claire showed up, someone repaired some of the wall immaculately and placed a smaller window there. These are some of the things that we get from Capcom sometimes and I'm just fine with that. It doesn't detract from the game to me because if I were imagining the window scenario I would just assume it's still broken open continuity wise. Same thing with some of the other games inconsistencies. That's just me.

October 4, 2017 at 2:19 PM Flag Quote & Reply

BSAArklay
Moderator
Posts: 604

Well yeah I am using my imagination this is after all a theories thread. It is very simple to dismiss theories with the canon shovel what is more difficult is trying to suggest alternatives and solutions to problems presented within the game itself. I could have came into this thread and said the boring cliche "Gameplay elements are non canon, there is no fixed path" because we haven't heard that a million times already instead I thought I would have abit of fun with it and try to suggest alternatives.


The day I assume Remake's locked doors are non canon is the day I no longer see the point in playing the game. The most wonderful thing about Remake is the mystery and the fact that it allows the player to use their IMAGINATION to solve these mysterys for themselves which is what I thought we was doing here.


When we start taking out whole mechanics at the drop of a hat and not trying to rationalise in a reasonable manner what can and cannot fit and begin stripping the game down to the bare minimum, if we listen to the "canon" essentially the whole game of Remake is a lie. There is no canon path, there are no puzzles, no locked doors.....whats the bloody point anymore? I mean all we are left with is an empty mansion that has been stripped bare and no longer has any mystery about it just strict canon rules. Nah I would much prefer to keep that air of mystery and hope that one day all the pieces fit the puzzle.


Also I fixed your most recent post Sonny for some reason whenever you use an appostrophy it completley screws up the word for some random reason.

--

"I've had enough of your bullshit! Your just another one of Umbrella's leftovers"

October 4, 2017 at 5:18 PM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
Member
Posts: 252

It's not a boring cliche when it is the simplest and most logical answer, especially where there are numerous examples found throughout the game of characters being somewhere that is simply impossible for them to be in. The alternatives you have suggested to get around this issue simply don't work or are entirely illogical. I use my imagination when playing the game too - but that immersion is killed if I am to take literally that a character is somehow inside a locked room or area when the only key is hidden somewhere in a plant pot at the other side of the building. That kills the imagination entirely, hence I ignore it. 


If a straight-up movie adaptation of Remake was ever done, do you honestly think the director would waste screentime on characters moving statues to find crests and keys?


You are exaggerating by saying the whole game is 'a lie' if we stick to the canon. It simply means the events within are the player's choice as ultimately the outcome is the same no matter which way or which order you do things. The mystery is preserved precisely because there is no answer. That is the point. 

October 4, 2017 at 6:09 PM Flag Quote & Reply

BSAArklay
Moderator
Posts: 604

The simplest and most logical answer equates to boring and cliche. There is no right or wrong because Capcom have not told us what is right or wrong. There is no canon stating that the locked doors and puzzles are non canon. So you might choose to take the simplest most logical path which is basically erase all that we know and just assume these elements did not happen. Then why did Barry mention the Jill sandwhich? Why are the traps mentioned in the comics/novels, why are the puzzle's stored as evidence in the STARS office all proof that these things actually happened.  Here is a problem in itself "when the only key" what make's you think there is only one key? Why could Wesker not have had a spare set of keys? He was afterall the chief of security would it not make sense for him to have copies? Or that several high ranking reserchers also had copies. You can't ignore it because you cannot make sense of it. Well you can but you cannot claim non canon because YOU choose to ignore it.


Concering a live action movie well we all know what happens when you ignore the events of Remake. Don't want to include mystery, puzzles, traps and locked doors? Get Paul Anderson to direct. Biohazard The Stage had elements of puzzles and locked doors and that didn't take away from it's atmosphere if anything it added to it. Also we aren't talking about making a movie out of the events here we are trying to suggest a realistic portrayal of what happened. Making it into a movie adds nothing to that and retconning the events is just mind boggling. 


I am not exaggertating at all when we are talking about no canon path, puzzles or locked doors. Tell me what is there left? There can be no mystery if there is no answer. There has to be an answer for it to even be in question in the first place. Who shot JFK? Nobody. Then it didn't happen. Which is exactly what you are saying about Remake.


The events we see on the screen is the canon telling of Resident Evil 1. What the canon rules are suggesting is that we ignore everything and only imagine certain things took place and we have no idea what these certain things are or how they took place. Here is two questions that I am awaiting answers for 1) Where does it state that Remake is an imagining of the events of RE1 (Because that is basically what canon is suggesting). 2) If there are no locked doors, puzzles or traps then why didn't STARS just roll right through to the helicopter port and get out of there within an hour or so. Why did they spend all night there? What exactly was it they were doing for 8+ hours just hanging round?

--

"I've had enough of your bullshit! Your just another one of Umbrella's leftovers"

October 4, 2017 at 6:44 PM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
Member
Posts: 252

You are getting too wound up over something that simply doesn't matter. Yes there are locked doors, yes there are traps - but the specifics of which don't matter. The game is not 'empty' because of it, far from it. It doesn't matter if Wesker had a spare set of keys or not, it still doesn't explain how characters are in impossible positions - a trait demonstrated in almost every other game in the series too. It's the same with ammo placements too, or do you think it's 'canon' that random shotgun rounds are kept in plantpots in the garden or inside a box in a hospital?

The point about a live action movie portrayal of the same story is that those elements simply wouldn't be included because there is no need for such elements in a non-interactive narrative, But we are playing a computer game, of which key-questing and item fetch quests are a common trait to expand the experience and keep things interesting.

How is there no mystery if there is no answer??? If you have the answer then there is no mystery!!

As to your points;

1 Absolutely no idea what you are talking about here.

2. Because if STARS could walk straight to the heliport it would not be much value as a computer game. It is stretched out and fabricated for that exact purpose. 

No one is saying there are no locked doors or puzzles, it's just that they don't matter in a narrative sense, and they cannot be taken literally as seen in the game because characters are not capable of teleportation.

October 4, 2017 at 7:43 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Sonny Bauer
Member
Posts: 57
BatMan, can I pick your brain and ask you how you would imagine the events of the Mansion Incident transpiring? Perhaps, you could answer based on how I broke down the incident into individual questions in my original post? I would like to see your perspective.
October 9, 2017 at 5:51 PM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
Member
Posts: 252

Who initially made it into the mansion following the dog pursuit?

-Jill, Barry and Wesker make it to the mansion. Chris gets lost somewhere outside with the dogs but later makes it to the mansion on his own. I believe he later enters via the main hall sometime after Jill and Barry go their separate ways after Wesker disappears (more specifically as Jill is in the bathroom throwing up). When Chris enters the mansion it pretty much plays out exactly like the scene where Chris returns to the main hall at the start of his game to find Wesker and Jill gone, although in this scenario Jill’s gun would not be left on the floor because in reality she still has it.



Who encountered the first zombie devouring Kenneth?

-Jill. Kenneth had been exploring the mansion for a number of hours prior to this point and had been on active duty for over 24 hours. He was fatigued, sloppy and he met his maker here unfortunately just minutes away from rescue. As Jill retreats back to the dining room to get away from the zombie eating him, I believe it is Chris that later checks his body and removes his shoulder camera.



Who encountered the Crimson Elder?

-Chris. Unfortunately I don’t agree with the George Trevor theory. We have a file in this game saying Trevor was disposed of on Nov 30th 1967 and this was 10 years before the first successful t-Virus strain was created. Trevor died outright from starvation and we know early strain t-Virus’ did not reanimate the dead. Additionally, Archives explains pretty well that the first V-Act zombie was just an irregular mutation in a regular zombie subject.

-Because Chris kills the Crimson Elder, he is the one that puts the stone object into place to unlock the back door. He then goes down the path to Lisa’s cabin. Whilst he is on this route, Jill leaves and goes direct via the garden and therefore will reach the Guardhouse first.



Who saved Richard/how did Richard die?

-Chris saves Richard and takes him to the infirmary. When he recovers, he later aids Jill when she explores the attic. He then dies in the Aqua Ring in front of Chris.



Who discovered Forest on the terrace and subsequently got attacked by him?

-Jill and Barry found him. Chris discovers him on his own later on. He reanimates against Chris and he is forced to shoot his friend.



Who triggered the ceiling trap?

-Jill. Important story exposition for Barry.



Who fought Yawn?

-Both. Chris is poisoned and Rebecca gets the serum for him. Jill later explores on her own and is saved by Richard without being poisoned.



Who encountered Lisa Trevor in her cabin?

Chris. (Lisa doesn’t kill him because he is male, and she traditionally only kill’s female researchers whilst searching for her mother’s face.) It is whilst he is unconscious here that Jill is able to get ahead of him.



Who travelled to the residence/guardhouse?

Both. Jill reaches the guardhouse first and overhears the conversation between Wesker and Barry. This happens whilst Chris is unconscious in Lisa’s cabin. The way I look at things now in my own little head canon is that Jill leaves the guardhouse to find Barry, wanting to find him and is a little unnerved about exploring the rest of the Guardhouse on her own after hearing the voices.) She cannot find him and instead notices the hidden passage behind the waterfall. She moves to explore this and heads underground. Moments after doing so, Chris (having regained consciousness,) uses the crank on the pond above causing the waterfall to cascade down and cover the tunnel. Hence when he comes down to the courtyard, Chris misses this hidden route and heads straight for the Guardhouse. (A liberty has to be taken here because of the waterfall puzzle. This is one of the reasons why the puzzles and keys etc cannot be taken in a literal sense. It places characters in impossible positions, leaves them stuck and if you really break it down, which I have believe me, they would be running into each other all the time. For this particular example, Jill reaches the pond first, but she does not have the crank as Chris already took it from the shed. Therefore, Jill simply wades across the pond and then goes down to the courtyard and the guardhouse. When she leaves the guardhouse – she heads to the underground tunnel to look for Barry because the waterfall isn’t flowing to cover it. It is only when Chris uses the crank to cross the pond does the waterfall conceal the tunnel and therefore Chris misses it completely.)



Who fought Plant 42?

-Chris.



Who fought Neptune?

-Chris



Who encountered Wesker in the guardhouse?

-Chris



Who went back to the mansion, encountered the hunters and fought Yawn the second time?

-Chris.



Who traversed the mining tunnels, encountered the hunters, and located Enrico?

-Jill. She explores the tunnels whilst Chris explores the guardhouse and returns to the mansion. Whilst Chris is in the mansion with the Hunters and exploring the rest of the rooms (as per Wesker’s directive), Jill eventually returns having recovered the stone and metal objects to unlock the gates beneath the main hall stairs.



WHO KILLED ENRICO? (we all know)

-Wesker



Who fought the giant black widow spider?

-Jill



Who encountered Lisa Trevor in the mining tunnel depths?

-Jill



Who defeated Lisa Trevor at the altar?

-Chris. This is another example of the puzzles not being literal as the requirements to recover the two emblems to unlock these gates would leave one of the characters trapped. Plus either Wesker or Barry is somehow down here before these gates can even be unlocked. And given the elaborate lock, the lazy skeleton key excuse cannot really work here. As it is, I have Chris fight Lisa and he is the one who reaches the lab first. I later have him pinned down in the power maze by the Chimeras which allows Jill to catch up.



Who viewed the slide projection, revealing Wesker as the traitor?

-Chris



Who was in the lab when Wesker revealed his true intentions and the Tyrant killed him?

-Both, albeit separately. Jill reaches the lab first simply because Barry’s apparent betrayal needs to be revealed in its full form. However, Wesker wants to save the Tyrant for his best man; aka Chris, so he decides to lock Jill up in the prison and send Barry up to the surface. Chris then later arrives with Rebecca and the scene plays out as normal. (We know this is the canonical path as Umbrella Chronicles later clarifies Wesker did not activate the triggering system.) I also can’t take seriously the idea of Chris, Jill, Barry and Rebecca all being down here at the same time whilst Wesker is typing on his computer and not even looking at them properly.



Who blew up the Tyrant?

-Jill



Basically I have the characters working separately to recover the death masks. Chris and Jill know other STARS members are still alive because they encounter the bodies of shot zombies and each time they return to the crypt they find another desk mask has been fitted by someone else. I include all the keys and puzzles as canonical features, I just don’t use them literally and by this I mean Jill can pick certain locks she can’t in the real game and some doors are simply unlocked that are locked in the game. This is the only way to negate magical character teleportation, characters getting stuck and characters not running into each other. This is only done when absolutely necessary to keep things as faithful as possible. I also don’t have Chris run into Barry or Jill run into Rebecca. I keep them separate as there’s no evidence for any such meeting occurring until the climax of the game. The only crossover I have is that Chris initially saves Richard from the poison but then he later saves Jill from the Yawn with his shotgun. One assumes he would have a conversation with Jill after they incapacitated the Snake that reveals to her about Chris still being alive.



I don’t believe both characters explored the entirety of the Guardhouse because the place is so small it would be a miracle for the characters not to run into each other considering you would have Chris, Jill, Barry, Rebecca, Wesker and Richard all in there at the same time. Again if we kept the keys and puzzles literal as they are in the game it would be a practical impossibility for the characters not to meet or get stuck.



As I mentioned before the biggest liberty I took with my own personal interpretation is that Jill doesn’t use the crank to get past the pond in the upper garden. She simply wades past. The reason for this is that Chris is the one who kills the crimson elder and unlocks the door to get to the shed first. He takes the crank but then goes down the path to Lisa’s cabin, therefore when Jill arrives in the garden she has no crank to drain the pond. I realise this could be negated by simply having Jill get the crank, drain the pool, go down and then have Chris follow afterwards, but this is only a short-term fix because it creates a massive problem later down the line when it comes to re-organising this puzzle for the player to get down to the mining tunnels. Having Jill simply swim across, allows her to actually see the hidden tunnel behind the waterfall so she goes down to investigate. Chris then uses the crank to drain the pool and the waterfall then covers that entrance, meaning Chris misses the mining tunnels altogether. This all fits really well because it dispenses for the need for both characters to revisit the mansion in it’s entirely and for both characters to go through the linear mines where again they should really be bumping into each other. One of the biggest headaches with improvising such a walkthrough is the problem of the Guardhouse. For reasons already stated it makes no sense for both characters to be exploring that location in its entirely, therefore once Jill hears the voices, she decides to follow Barry outside. There is no sign of him because he’s already gone down into the mining tunnels. Jill follows and that leads to she and him later finding Enrico.


But obviously as this thread has demonstrated, we can all play the game in a variety of ways and the end result is largely irrelevant because there is no fixed canon. So long as Jill, Chris, Barry, Rebbeca and Brad survive and that Rebecca activate the triggering system rather than Wesker, you can pretty much interpret the other events how you like.

October 10, 2017 at 4:58 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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