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Sonny Bauer
Member
Posts: 56



Hey guys! As we all know, there really is no concrete explanation of the events that transpired during the original/remake game. You play as Chris or Jill, but aside from different supporting partners and character specific scenes, their scenarios essentially both play out the same for the most part. So, I figured I'd investigate these events and ask fellow RE1/Remake fans for their statements on what they think transpired at the mansion that night. There's so much that can be discussed. For instance:


Who initially made it into the mansion following the dog pursuit?

Who encountered the first zombie devouring Kenneth?

Who encountered the Crimson Elder?

Who saved Richard/how did Richard die?

Who discovered Forest on the terrace and subsequently got attacked by him?

Who triggered the ceiling trap?

Who fought Yawn?

Who encountered Lisa Trevor in her cabin?

Who traveled to the residence/guardhouse?

Who fought Plant 42?

Who fought Neptune?

Who encountered Wesker in the guardhouse?

Who went back to the mansion, encountered the hunters and fought Yawn the second time?

Who traversed the mining tunnels, encountered the hunters, and located Enrico?

WHO KILLED ENRICO? (we all know)

Who fought the giant black widow spider?

Who encountered Lisa Trevor in the mining tunnel depths?

Who defeated Lisa Trevor at the altar?

Who viewed the slide projection, revealing Wesker as the traitor?

Who was in the lab when Wesker revealed his true intentions and the Tyrant killed him?

Who blew up the Tyrant?


I'd like to hear what you all think! Looking forward to hearing your perspectives! I'll be sharing my own as well!

August 1, 2017 at 10:53 PM Flag Quote & Reply

USS Command
Moderator
Posts: 333

I had plan on making an in-depth list of known facts from the mansion with sources. But life is being hard at the moment. So I’ll just answer some of these.


Who initially made it into the mansion following the dog pursuit?

According to a source that can’t be reviled yet, Jill, Barry and Wesker. Rather or not that source is canon will be talked about further on a podcast(or I’ll raise hell!) All I can/will say at this time.


Who encountered the first zombie devouring Kenneth?

Again, can’t talk about it just yet, but it’s possible that no one sees it devouring him, and he just comes to the dining room himself to attack Barry and Jill.

However, as BSAArklay likes to point out, the window in that area is opened. Chris, COULD have possibly came in there, encounter the zombie, disturbed it, and then that lead it to going to the dining room somehow. I'll speak of it more one day along with the above mentioned subject.

Or Hell, I could just say Wesker,

"Well, let's get started," Wesker said to himself, and began to operate the switchboard. One of the monitors showed his two team members as they moved through the dining room. The duo crossed the dining room and stepped through a door at the end of the room into the adjoining room. There, a figure whose movements looked somewhat monotonous and mechanical. At first glance it looked like a man, but in reality it was not human. It was a former-man, a living-dead man. A zombie.

Wesker hit a button and zoomed in closer. The zombie was crouched there, holding someone in its arms. Not to protect him of course, but to feast on him. The camera zoomed in closer to the face of the man being eaten alive.

"Kenneth...", mumbled Wesker and he grinned mockingly. "What a shame. So shortly before the finish...;"


 

Who saved Richard/how did Richard die?

Jill tries to, cause I like how she gives him CPR in the DS version trying to save him. Also, The Stage makes it clear that Rebecca and Chris meet in the Medical storage room, even though she’s with him when he gets bit. So it’s possible she left him wherever, as his location differs in game, to get medicine.

He dies of poison sadly. Inside of BIO HAZARD and Umbrella Chronicles support this.


Who discovered Forest on the terrace and subsequently got attacked by him?

I personally like to think Barry and Jill found him, as that scene is really nice. Then he doesn’t reanimate until Chris gets there. My only reasoning for this is A. The Prototype Grenade Launcher isn’t there. B. I love how in Pachislot Forrest talks, begging Chris to kill him while he is attacking. In Outbreak Online, assuming your version had adlibs and/or spoken dialoged when pressed the talk button, when you become a zombie you would say thing like “please kill me, can’t control.” Which would eventually devolve into just moans and groans.


Who triggered the ceiling trap?

Jill. The Jill sandwich thing is talked about in Rev2.


 

Who encountered Lisa Trevor in her cabin?

Barry did first. It just doesn’t make sense for Wesker’s “stay away” message to exist as he is there getting combat data. He’d want them to find her.


WHO KILLED ENRICO? (we all know)

While Wesker did it canon wise, Barry does it in Jill’s story. It’s just lost in translation. Just saying.


Who defeated Lisa Trevor at the altar?

Her own Mother!


Who was in the lab when Wesker revealed his true intentions and the Tyrant killed him?

The Tyrant stabbed him. But I always saw this scene like this, Barry Jill, Rebecca and Chris are all there together. Wesker shoots Rebecca, tells Barry to go outside, Barry does, gets pissed comes back shoots Wesker’s arm, tyrant wakes up, stabs Wesker, knocks out Barry, Chris and Jill kicks its ass. But that’s just me.


Who blew up the Tyrant?

Jill does in Pachislot's trailer, so I'd say her.

 

--

"I'll take my Survival Horror like I take my men" - George Trevor, September 3, 2017 at 6:10 PM

“Great love springs from great knowledge of the beloved object and if you know it but a little, you will be able to love it only a little or not at all.” - Leonardo da Vinci

August 2, 2017 at 10:13 AM Flag Quote & Reply

BSAArklay
Moderator
Posts: 603

Depends on who you are asking these questions too. If you ask the strict canon fans then there is no canon path. The events happened but there is no Jill did this and Chris did that. If you ask someone like myself or USSCommand who like to put the pieces of the puzzle together then you will get more in depth replies like the one USSCommand just posted.


Personally I like to believe that the canon paths are whatever they encountered with their interactive NPC. So for instance Jill encountered the ceiling trap because Barry was present (hence the Jill sandwhich refference). Jill also encountered Lisa Trevor due to the radio calls from Barry, I am aware that Wesker makes this call for Chris however like USSCommand pointed out it is less believeable that Wesker would be helping the STARS unit during the mansion incident.


Who initially made it into the mansion following the dog pursuit?

I believe that Jill made it into the mansion due to Barry being missing in Chris's story and we all know he survived the mansion so it makes more sense for it to have been Jill whilst Chris enters via a different route and runs into Rebecca shortly after.


Who encountered the first zombie devouring Kenneth?

Same as above, I believe that Chris entered the mansion via an open window in the Tea Room area which led to the gunshots that you hear in the main hall moments after entering the mansion. This I believe to have been Chris and Kenneth had died earlier in the night.

 

Who saved Richard/how did Richard die?

I believe that it was Jill that saved Richard whilst Chris witnessed his death.

 

Who discovered Forest on the terrace and subsequently got attacked by him?

Again similar to above and like USSCommand said, Jill encountered Forest originally but Chris fought and killed his reanimated corpse. The two were good friends and it makes sense for the story that Chris would be the one to put his friend out of his misery.

 

Who triggered the ceiling trap?

Jill as stated above.

 

Who encountered Lisa Trevor in her cabin?

Answered above.

 

Who traveled to the residence/guardhouse?

Both at different points. I believe that Chris would have made it there first and then later Jill.

 

Who fought Plant 42?

Rebecca due to the V-Jolt and its importance and addition to the guides. Had it been Jill with no V-Jolt the whole process becomes irrelevant.

 

Who fought Neptune?

Hard to say, since I believe it was Chris that fought Yawn then I believe that Jill would have fought Neptune but this is just a hunch.

 

Who encountered Wesker in the guardhouse?

Jill. I do not believe that Chris would have encountered Wesker until the labs. Considering that Jill had suspicions of Barry and heard the mystery conversation through the door it just has a greater story arch if this was Jill. Perhaps earning some trust in Wesker which leads her to her fate towards the end of the incident.

 

Who went back to the mansion, encountered the hunters and fought Yawn the second time?

They both had to re-enter the mansion to get to the labs who fought Yawn is anyones guess though.


Who traversed the mining tunnels, encountered the hunters, and located Enrico?

I believe that they both entered the mines. Jill would have entered with Barry and encountered Lisa whilst Chris fought the Black Tiger and found Enrico. I don't believe it is possible for Barry to have anything to do with Enrico's death. He felt terrible for almost betraying Jill, if he had blood on his hands he would never have forgiven himself, its abit extreme.

 

Who defeated Lisa Trevor at the altar?

Barry and Jill.

 

Who viewed the slide projection, revealing Wesker as the traitor?

Chris. It is of my opinion that Jill had been captured and put into the jail cell by this point. Wesker holds a serious grudge against Chris for ruining his plans during the Mansion incident. Also Barry would have betrayed Jill hence him feeling so guilty. Which makes sense for him risking his life and returning to Raccoon City for her in RE3.

 

Who was in the lab when Wesker revealed his true intentions and the Tyrant killed him?

Chris. Makes sense for the whole grudge. Had it been Jill it would not have been so personal between Wesker and Chris. With Jill captured it was down to Chris to save the day and ruin Weskers plans which he did and the grudge was born.

 

Who blew up the Tyrant?

Jill. Since Chris played a major role in stopping Wesker eliminating STARS well Jill has to play a role in the ending. I could be wrong on this but I believe it stated in one of the Kaitai guides that Jill was trained to use a rocket launcher or a similar type weapon during her time in the military. Just felt like they were trying to nod towards the ending of RE1. Also yes she fires the rocket in Pachislot.

--

"I've had enough of your bullshit! Your just another one of Umbrella's leftovers"

August 2, 2017 at 1:59 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Sonny Bauer
Member
Posts: 56

Thanks for answering, guys! These are some interesting perspectives. I thought I'd share mine with you (always subject to change)



Who initially made it into the mansion following the dog pursuit?

Jill, Barry and Wesker. I believe that Chris enters the mansion through the back door via that small outside terrace leading to the shed on the other side. Chris lost his gun while running from the dogs, so it is my belief that he eventually runs into Barry, who then provides Chris with his custom Samurai Edge. Barry then uses his magnum for the rest of the incident.


Who encountered the first zombie devouring Kenneth?

I believe that the gunshot that is heard is a reflex from Kenneth as he’s being eaten. Jill and Barry investigate the dining room and encounter the zombie whether or not Jill investigates the hall.


Who encountered the Crimson Elder?

Chris. This is the beginning of his Trevor family arc. Groan all you want, but I believe that George Trevor or his corpse was taken back to the laboratory and experimented on for years until the T-Virus with the V-Act strain was created through him and he became the Crimson Head Elder. His gravestone in the mansion is merely metaphorical. Works better for the story and is symbolic as in he was kept prisoner until the very end, hence the shackles on the Elder.


Who saved Richard/how did Richard die?

Chris and Rebecca save him. It is my belief that Richard lives a little longer than we see in the game. I like the idea of him sacrificing himself to either the hunters, or better yet, Lisa Trevor.


Who discovered Forest on the terrace and subsequently got attacked by him?

I agree with you both. Jill and Barry got there first, Barry gives Jill the grenade launcher, and Chris is forced to put down his close friend later.


Who triggered the ceiling trap?

Jill Sandwich.


Who fought Yawn in the attic?

Jill.


Who encountered Lisa Trevor in her cabin?

Barry. He then radios Jill to stay away and she actually does. I have no problem with this being a Barry moment. I won’t have Jill encounter her at all. Chris will have the encounters with her later.


Who traveled to the residence/guardhouse?

Both.


Who fought Plant 42?

Chris and Richard, while Rebecca makes the V-Jolt.


Who fought Neptune?

If it is fought before the plant like in the game, Chris. I’d like to take a liberty on this one. I’m a fan of the aqua ring in RE1 over the aqua ring in Remake. This would be a great Rebecca moment if the Plant 42 battle has already begun. She can have a cat and mouse with the Neptune, escape into the control room, drain the water, and use the V-Jolt in the room next door.


Who encountered Wesker in the guardhouse?

Jill. It furthers her character arc with her suspicions of Barry and earns some trust in Wesker, like BSAArklay said.


Who went back to the mansion, encountered the hunters and fought Yawn the second time?

Both return to the mansion. Jill finishes the Yawn. Chris finds George Trevor’s gravestone.


Who traversed the mining tunnels, encountered the hunters, and located Enrico?

Both travel to the mining tunnels separately. Here’s where I merge RE1 and Remake a bit. Bear with me. It is my belief that the tunnels connect to the lab via the lift like in RE1, but the altar from Remake also connects to the lab.


Jill enters and locates Barry. She is wary of him, but they decide to investigate together and find Enrico. This is one of my most mssed scenes in REmake.


WHO KILLED ENRICO? (We all know)

Wesker. Jill has been suspicious of Barry all this time, but he is right beside her when the shot is fired. This is a great turning point in her arc because it throws her suspicions in disarray. Who could have fired the shot? Chris Redfield? Richard Aiken? Rebecca Chambers? Or Albert Wesker?


Barry and Enrico were close, whether as friends or as mentor/apprentice. He gets enraged and sprints after the killer. Barry encounters Wesker, who then reminds him what will happen to his family if he doesn’t cooperate. Wesker then heads to the labs via the mining tunnel lift. Barry returns to Enrico to find that Jill is gone and blames himself for not preventing Enrico’s death. (Crucify me if you like, but S.D. Perry got this part right)


Who fought the giant black tiger spider?

Jill. She then find her way to the lab via the mining tunnel lift. Barry catches up to her later.


Who encountered Lisa Trevor in the mining tunnel depths?

Chris takes the elevator down and encounters her. He follows the path that leads to her cabin, uncovering more Trevor family secrets. He then follows the woods back to the mansion and finds his way to the altar.


Who defeated Lisa Trevor at the altar?

Chris and Rebecca. This would be a great moment for Richard to sacrifice himself to save them. Chris learns of Jessica’s remains prior to Lisa’s jump.


Who viewed the slide projection, revealing Wesker as the traitor?

Chris and Rebecca. Jill needs to be uncertain until the double cross in the lab.


Who was in the lab when Wesker revealed his true intentions and the Tyrant killed him?

Chris and Rebecca arrive first. Wesker gets the drop on them and disarms them. Jill and Barry arrive shortly after and Jill thinks that they have Wesker outnumbered *click* from behind her head. She turns to see Barry with the gun pointed at her. He disarms her and leaves as per Wesker’s order. Wesker explains his plan, shoots Rebecca and reveals the T-002 to Chris and Jill.


Barry, feeling remorseful, re-enters the room, shoots Wesker, hitting him in the vest, which partially stops the bullet, sending Wesker into the terminal, he reaches up and activates the T-002, which then impales him and tosses him aside, knocks Barry out, and faces off against Chris and Jill. Before Wesker completely loses consciousness, he sees Jill briefly tend to Barry while Chris faces off against the T-002, which is why when he wakes up he thinks Chris downed the Tyrant.


However, Jill picks up Barry’s .44 magnum and sends a powerful shot through the T-002’s heart, dropping it like a ton of bricks. Chris tends to Rebecca and we learn that she has survived due to wearing a bullet-proof vest. She brings up the idea to set off the self-destruct system and Barry goes with her while Chris and Jill head to the heliport.


Who blew up the Tyrant?

In my opinion, Chris. I know that multiple sources point to Jill, but I like to balance out the idea that Chris defeats T-002 here and then Jill has her big final moments with the Nemesis in Raccoon City later. Plus, it also still symbolically seals the fact that Chris ruined Wesker's plan to steal the T-002, even if not literally from Wesker's perspective in the lab when he finds it "dead".


Let me know what you guys think of this. I did take liberties and blend different iterations of the story together, if only to enrich characters and build the story more.

August 5, 2017 at 11:43 PM Flag Quote & Reply

USS Command
Moderator
Posts: 333

Who initially made it into the mansion following the dog pursuit?

“Jill, Barry and Wesker. I believe that Chris enters the mansion through the back door via that small outside terrace leading to the shed on the other side. Chris lost his gun while running from the dogs, so it is my belief that he eventually runs into Barry, who then provides Chris with his custom Samurai Edge. Barry then uses his magnum for the rest of the incident.”

I have a similar belief, see the Samurai Edge He finds in the main Hall is Jill’s. In Director’s Cut they use Beretta Inoxs, which is the standard STARS handgun before the Edge was finished. I like to think Jill may have brought both her Inox and Samurai Edge and left the Edge for Chris to use. The reason for this is other versions of the game just has either a normal or Inox Beretta while remake is specifically using Jill’s model.

Who encountered the first zombie devouring Kenneth?

“I believe that the gunshot that is heard is a reflex from Kenneth as he’s being eaten. Jill and Barry investigate the dining room and encounter the zombie whether or not Jill investigates the hall.”

For this, I think the gunshot was Richard. See in the Video Kenneth is firing off randomly, yet only ONE shot is herd. In Umbrella Chronicles, Richard and Rebecca are fighting Yawn in the Library, which is on the left side of the mansion like the gunshot, and the fight ends with Richard getting bit and shooting off ONE shot inside Yawns mouth making it leave them alone.

Who encountered the Crimson Elder?

“Chris. This is the beginning of his Trevor family arc. Groan all you want, but I believe that George Trevor or his corpse was taken back to the laboratory and experimented on for years until the T-Virus with the V-Act strain was created through him and he became the Crimson Head Elder. His gravestone in the mansion is merely metaphorical. Works better for the story and is symbolic as in he was kept prisoner until the very end, hence the shackles on the Elder.”

The only problem I see with that is they didn’t experiment on Lisa till 88. And Kaitai Shinsho also states GT died of starvation on the 31 of November back in 67. To add on to that, one of the mobile cellphone games has a hidden room full of prison cells, one of them is labeled George with an old skeleton inside. Also, not all t-Virus variants can bring back the dead (I believe the only t-Virus to bring back the dead was the one in Veronica). So it couldn’t’ve been GT’s body just because the mansion had older variant being worked on and V-ACT was a fairly recent mutation. But, I used to believe that CHE was Lisa’s dad back when I was younger and its an idea I still like, but it just don’t work anymore(for me anyway)

Who saved Richard/how did Richard die?

“Chris and Rebecca save him. It is my belief that Richard lives a little longer than we see in the game. I like the idea of him sacrificing himself to either the hunters, or better yet, Lisa Trevor.”

I’ll always be conflicted with this, I love the idea of him living longer, but so much material just had him dying to snake venom/shock that I can’t ignore it.

But for everything else, I can generally dig it. I also consider all versions of the mansion incident canon in some form.

 

--

"I'll take my Survival Horror like I take my men" - George Trevor, September 3, 2017 at 6:10 PM

“Great love springs from great knowledge of the beloved object and if you know it but a little, you will be able to love it only a little or not at all.” - Leonardo da Vinci

August 7, 2017 at 11:10 PM Flag Quote & Reply

NEMESIS
Member
Posts: 183

From what I can deduce from these events there is no strict canon order for Chris and Jill thru the mansion. Resident Evil 2 however does have an agreed canon order for Leon and Claire. Claire A/Leon B is the story that the developers later confirmed as being officilal canon. Leon A/Claire B has many discrepancies e.g. when Leon and Ada enter the tram and Birkin attacks them with his mutated arm, later when Leon fights him on the elevator platform, you see William re-growing this same mutation as if for the first time!

--

STAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRS

August 8, 2017 at 12:36 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Sonny Bauer
Member
Posts: 56
Hey NEMESIS. I do understand that factually there is no documented canon path for Chris or Jill in the events of RE1. Maybe I didn't explain it clearly enough and if I didn't my apologies. I was looking for more of what your own personal take was on the event. Could you see it playing out a certain way? Do you feel that certain plot points worked better for one of the characters as opposed to the other? If you were to be given the task of depicting the mansion incident, how would you portray it? If you are just fine with the fact that there is no canon scenario, that's cool, but I welcome anything opinion you have from your own personal experience.
August 8, 2017 at 1:47 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Sonny Bauer
Member
Posts: 56

USS Command at August 7, 2017 at 11:10 PM

Who initially made it into the mansion following the dog pursuit?

“Jill, Barry and Wesker. I believe that Chris enters the mansion through the back door via that small outside terrace leading to the shed on the other side. Chris lost his gun while running from the dogs, so it is my belief that he eventually runs into Barry, who then provides Chris with his custom Samurai Edge. Barry then uses his magnum for the rest of the incident.”

I have a similar belief, see the Samurai Edge He finds in the main Hall is Jill’s. In Director’s Cut they use Beretta Inoxs, which is the standard STARS handgun before the Edge was finished. I like to think Jill may have brought both her Inox and Samurai Edge and left the Edge for Chris to use. The reason for this is other versions of the game just has either a normal or Inox Beretta while remake is specifically using Jill’s model.

Who encountered the first zombie devouring Kenneth?

“I believe that the gunshot that is heard is a reflex from Kenneth as he’s being eaten. Jill and Barry investigate the dining room and encounter the zombie whether or not Jill investigates the hall.”

For this, I think the gunshot was Richard. See in the Video Kenneth is firing off randomly, yet only ONE shot is herd. In Umbrella Chronicles, Richard and Rebecca are fighting Yawn in the Library, which is on the left side of the mansion like the gunshot, and the fight ends with Richard getting bit and shooting off ONE shot inside Yawns mouth making it leave them alone.

Who encountered the Crimson Elder?

“Chris. This is the beginning of his Trevor family arc. Groan all you want, but I believe that George Trevor or his corpse was taken back to the laboratory and experimented on for years until the T-Virus with the V-Act strain was created through him and he became the Crimson Head Elder. His gravestone in the mansion is merely metaphorical. Works better for the story and is symbolic as in he was kept prisoner until the very end, hence the shackles on the Elder.”

The only problem I see with that is they didn’t experiment on Lisa till 88. And Kaitai Shinsho also states GT died of starvation on the 31 of November back in 67. To add on to that, one of the mobile cellphone games has a hidden room full of prison cells, one of them is labeled George with an old skeleton inside. Also, not all t-Virus variants can bring back the dead (I believe the only t-Virus to bring back the dead was the one in Veronica). So it couldn’t’ve been GT’s body just because the mansion had older variant being worked on and V-ACT was a fairly recent mutation. But, I used to believe that CHE was Lisa’s dad back when I was younger and its an idea I still like, but it just don’t work anymore(for me anyway)

Who saved Richard/how did Richard die?

“Chris and Rebecca save him. It is my belief that Richard lives a little longer than we see in the game. I like the idea of him sacrificing himself to either the hunters, or better yet, Lisa Trevor.”

I’ll always be conflicted with this, I love the idea of him living longer, but so much material just had him dying to snake venom/shock that I can’t ignore it.

But for everything else, I can generally dig it. I also consider all versions of the mansion incident canon in some form.

 

If the Samurai Edge had replaced the Inox as the standard issue, I personally doubt any of the S.T.A.R.S. members would have brought it along. Also, I'm pretty sure it's stated in a source or a few sources that Chris, Jill, Barry, and Wesker received their own custom versions as they were the ones who tested for Joe Kendo, if I recall correctly. The only person I would see having two weapons is Barry, one being his .44 Silver Serpent, the other being his Samurai Edge. Joseph probably had his Samurai Edge along with his shotgun, but he was killed in the forest. I could totally see Chris running into Barry at some point in the mansion with just his knife and Barry offering his Samurai Edge with any extra mags that he has. Let's entertain the idea that Jill brought her Inox with her. If we are going based on Jill, Barry, and Wesker entering the mansion, why would Jill just leave a gun for Chris to pick up? At what point would she have seen Chris drop his gun? It looked to me like she wasn't even looking back while running toward the mansion. To add to that, it wouldn't seem plausible for her to just leave the gun because as far as she's concerned, Chris did not make it in and could be dead at this point. She would have to run into him to give him the gun. That's just my belief.


Okay, while Kenneth's tape does suggest an inconsistency with the amount of gunshots fired, I believe that he was shooting the zombie as the S.T.A.R.S. were running through the forest just prior to their entrance to the mansion. By the time they enter, the zombie has already taken him down and is eating him alive. The single gunshot could be a reflex to the zombie taking a bite out of him in a weakened state, making him squeeze the trigger. Hell, it could have even been his final bullet, which is kind of symbolic. As far as the Yawn fight with Richard and Rebecca in the library, as much as I love the Nightmare scenario in Umbrella Chronicles, I never considered the library to be the canon location for Richard to get attacked. All other iterations have him in the hallway leading to the attic, which makes sense since Yawn is in there. Plus, I think they just reused the library in Umbrella Chronicles because you would have to have the final battle there with Chris and Jill later and not all of the rooms in the mansion, such as the attic, were used for the game. So, you could call it lazy on their part or killing two birds with one stone.


That's a great point that you make about the timing of the t-Virus creation, the jail cells in the mobile game and experimentations and the V-ACT mutation. I will agree that all sources seem to point toward his dying of starvation, but I feel like anything could be possible. I remember hearing that George Trevor (owner of the site) had a theory of Trevor actually escaping the mansion. By the same token, what if he hadn't died and he got recaptured and locked up in the lab alongside his daughter and experimented on for years with the V-ACT mutation as opposed to Lisa's mutation? There's really no way to know whether or not he died, survived and escaped or was captured again because aside from the mobile game there wasn't an actual body in the main series. There was also that bit in the "family photo and notes" that Lisa wrote in that was pretty interesting;


19

Touch Daddy first Mommy second

Inside Red slimy white hard

Not real Mommy Don't know Daddy


I like the idea that daddy and red slimy was a subtle nod to George being the crimson head, while mommy and white hard was a subtle nod to Jessica looking sickly or her eventual skeletal remains at the altar. Obviously, that is just something I imagined, but still woould be interesting if it was sort of a subtle connection.



I really do love the idea of Richard living longer. It just seems too easy to kill him off with the snake venom. It would be much more interesting to have the serum cure the venom, but fail to cure the t-Virus, so as time goes on, he gets weaker and maybe he realizes what he's eventually going to become and sacrifices himself at the altar for Chris and Rebecca or something.


It's nice to hear that you consider all the different versions of the mansion incident a blended canon. Glad that we agree on that.


Thanks for the feedback and for responding again USS Command! It's really interesting to hear a different perspective and to be able to bounce off one another!

August 9, 2017 at 10:42 PM Flag Quote & Reply

BSAArklay
Moderator
Posts: 603

Excellent post there Sonny. Check out the History of Samurai Edge for more information on the S.T.A.R.S. background with the weapon. In February 1998 Chris was chosen to trial test out the Samurai Edge due to him being ranked number one in many marksmen competitions. Although apparently he isn’t very good with a weapon up close (see Arias battle). Phase two testing involved Chris, Jill, Barry and Wesker which took place in March 1998. In June 1998 the final version is given to the remaining S.T.A.R.S. members. I am interested to know if the likes of Forest and Richard found their shotguns and grenade launchers in the mansion because in the Zero cut scene I don’t recall seeing these weapons unless they grabbed them from the chopper moments before conducting their search. Why exactly Forest is carrying a grenade launcher when he is classed as a sniper is beyond me but I digress. You’re point about Jill leaving her gun behind is a very good one. I think that this is a moment that can be considered as non-canon as there is no way she would relieve herself of her weapon just so potentially Chris could pick it up. I always imagined that in Chris’s story that Wesker had already apprehended Jill at this point and disarmed her, leaving her weapon behind. I think there are moments of each of their campaign’s that should be considered non canon due to the alternatives path being canon. Example Chris’s encountering the shotgun/ceiling trap should be considered non canon due to Barry’s Jill sandwich reference.


Personally I believe that Kenneth was already dead before the STARS entered the mansion. It seems a bit farfetched to me that he managed to survive the night and not encounter a single BOW. His reaction to the zombie is one of panic and he is known as being a bit of an amateur. According to several of his profiles it states that he is a chemist first, Wesker selected him to be on the S.T.A.R.S. unit due to his knowledge in science. His military experience is probably the worst of the S.T.A.R.S. unit next to Rebecca. USS Command even put forth an excellent theory about how he and Edward were teamed up to search the immediate area in the opening cut scene for Zero. Edward ends up getting attacked by Cerebus/Zombies and near death whilst Kenneth is nowhere to be found. Suggesting that Kenneth saw Edward being attacked and fled the scene. Taking into consideration all of this I just find it hard to believe that Kenneth managed to make it right up until Alpha team entered the mansion. I believe that it was Chris who fired the gunshots perhaps even stumbling upon Kenneth and using his weapon if it is even possible that Chris lost his weapon. Also notice the downed zombies and combat damage in this area leading around to a door locked from the other side. It is my belief that Chris entered via the Tea Room window which is open. Encountered the zombie and disturbed him firing a shot and then fleeing the area. I have more to this theory although I am not ready to make it public just yet.


Richard’s location is something that has annoyed me the most regarding the Bravo Team. Everyone seems to be in an area that is accessible if you just use an ounce of imagination. Richard however is stuck between two locked doors and it is impossible for him to be there. He is the only part of the puzzle that just does not fit. I honestly don’t believe that the Crimson Elder could be George Trevor. He was placed there many years after the death of George whose body would have decayed and been useless to them for research purposes. Spencer’s primary goals in dispatching George Trevor and his family were for the simple reason of just getting rid of anyone who has as much knowledge about the mansion as Spencer does, as well as getting rid of any outsiders who don’t need to have this knowledge. According to the HD Remaster Blueprints map I just posted. The blueprints state that the construction team had been changed and they were looking for an entire new group of workers. Spencer would have liked to change things up and perhaps hire new workers as often as possible to keep them from learning to much. My point here is George Trevor was just a lose end. I don’t think Spencer had any grudges with the man to keep his body around 30 years just to experiment on him one day. Spencer was after all a fan of George’s work. He simply would have dispatched of him and disposed of the body. I know that it would be nice and sort of poetic for Crimson Elder to be George but it is just a bit farfetched and doesn’t fit. If Capcom wanted it to be George I think there would have been evidence of it. There is nothing really there to suggest that it is him though. God only knows how many subjects went through those labs chances are one in thousands.


The cryptic note that Lisa leaves is exactly the sort of information that would suggest it is George or could be confused as being him. What you say makes sense for this note however this is another explanation of what it could mean. The researchers found that roleplaying as Lisa’s parents seemed to make Lisa cooperate with their demands, she was after all very young, scared and missing them. This worked for a while until Lisa finally realised that these fake parents were not her real ones and tore their faces off. I do not believe that Lisa saw her mother or father after their deaths, she is simply referring to the researches who role played as her parents, hence the ‘not real mammy and don’t know daddy’. I think inside red slimy is a reference to blood and flesh whilst white hard being bone. She tore their faces off.

--

"I've had enough of your bullshit! Your just another one of Umbrella's leftovers"

August 10, 2017 at 3:34 PM Flag Quote & Reply

USS Command
Moderator
Posts: 333

@Sonny Bauer

Good point with the Inox. There’s no real reason for Jill to bring it. But here’s my full reasoning for it. IF you fail to save Chris, Jill has this STRONG belief that he made it out somehow. So maybe she just thought Chris could use it/thought she needed a backup. The idea started in RE2’s Extreme Battle mode. Chris has the Inox and the wooden grip is very dull and worn looking compare to its look in Director's Cut. So I thought maybe after Jill left her Edge, she worn out the Inox and when they all escape, they just swapped weapons, allowing Jill to use her Edge in RE3. I know EB is a mini game BUT I figured if Capcom went through the trouble to give Chris unique animations then maybe the weapons could hold some canon value, after all Mad Jackel is a canon TV show that rich people watch. Also, Capcom changed the handgun into the Samurai Edge for the DS version of RE1 instead of leaving it as the normal or Inox Beretta. They could’ve easily done the same for Chris in RE2EB but didn’t. You could also argue that the Inox was his and not Jill’s still leaving room for your Barry Idea, which I do really like btw so I may just use that along with my idea somehow.

@BSAArklay

I forgot all about that theory....

They probably just got them out of the chopper off screen. Richard’s shotgun is said to be not only his favorite, but a STARS custom. Here’s an idea about the Grenade Launcher, it’s a new prototype from Saco Defense Corporation, and we know STARS got three slightly different models, SO what if Forest was testing it for range? Be a good idea considering it’s a new prototype. Plus, being the team’s sniper, who would be better to test the range and accuracy? Hell, if we want to throw more crap at Kenneth, maybe he was testing it for some reason, saw Edward get attack, and dropped the grenade launcher as he ran and it was found by Forest.

 

--

"I'll take my Survival Horror like I take my men" - George Trevor, September 3, 2017 at 6:10 PM

“Great love springs from great knowledge of the beloved object and if you know it but a little, you will be able to love it only a little or not at all.” - Leonardo da Vinci

August 10, 2017 at 7:26 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Sonny Bauer
Member
Posts: 56

BSAArklay at August 10, 2017 at 3:34 PM

Excellent post there Sonny. Check out the History of Samurai Edge for more information on the S.T.A.R.S. background with the weapon. In February 1998 Chris was chosen to trial test out the Samurai Edge due to him being ranked number one in many marksmen competitions. Although apparently he isn’t very good with a weapon up close (see Arias battle). Phase two testing involved Chris, Jill, Barry and Wesker which took place in March 1998. In June 1998 the final version is given to the remaining S.T.A.R.S. members. I am interested to know if the likes of Forest and Richard found their shotguns and grenade launchers in the mansion because in the Zero cut scene I don’t recall seeing these weapons unless they grabbed them from the chopper moments before conducting their search. Why exactly Forest is carrying a grenade launcher when he is classed as a sniper is beyond me but I digress. You’re point about Jill leaving her gun behind is a very good one. I think that this is a moment that can be considered as non-canon as there is no way she would relieve herself of her weapon just so potentially Chris could pick it up. I always imagined that in Chris’s story that Wesker had already apprehended Jill at this point and disarmed her, leaving her weapon behind. I think there are moments of each of their campaign’s that should be considered non canon due to the alternatives path being canon. Example Chris’s encountering the shotgun/ceiling trap should be considered non canon due to Barry’s Jill sandwich reference.


Personally I believe that Kenneth was already dead before the STARS entered the mansion. It seems a bit farfetched to me that he managed to survive the night and not encounter a single BOW. His reaction to the zombie is one of panic and he is known as being a bit of an amateur. According to several of his profiles it states that he is a chemist first, Wesker selected him to be on the S.T.A.R.S. unit due to his knowledge in science. His military experience is probably the worst of the S.T.A.R.S. unit next to Rebecca. USS Command even put forth an excellent theory about how he and Edward were teamed up to search the immediate area in the opening cut scene for Zero. Edward ends up getting attacked by Cerebus/Zombies and near death whilst Kenneth is nowhere to be found. Suggesting that Kenneth saw Edward being attacked and fled the scene. Taking into consideration all of this I just find it hard to believe that Kenneth managed to make it right up until Alpha team entered the mansion. I believe that it was Chris who fired the gunshots perhaps even stumbling upon Kenneth and using his weapon if it is even possible that Chris lost his weapon. Also notice the downed zombies and combat damage in this area leading around to a door locked from the other side. It is my belief that Chris entered via the Tea Room window which is open. Encountered the zombie and disturbed him firing a shot and then fleeing the area. I have more to this theory although I am not ready to make it public just yet.


Richard’s location is something that has annoyed me the most regarding the Bravo Team. Everyone seems to be in an area that is accessible if you just use an ounce of imagination. Richard however is stuck between two locked doors and it is impossible for him to be there. He is the only part of the puzzle that just does not fit. I honestly don’t believe that the Crimson Elder could be George Trevor. He was placed there many years after the death of George whose body would have decayed and been useless to them for research purposes. Spencer’s primary goals in dispatching George Trevor and his family were for the simple reason of just getting rid of anyone who has as much knowledge about the mansion as Spencer does, as well as getting rid of any outsiders who don’t need to have this knowledge. According to the HD Remaster Blueprints map I just posted. The blueprints state that the construction team had been changed and they were looking for an entire new group of workers. Spencer would have liked to change things up and perhaps hire new workers as often as possible to keep them from learning to much. My point here is George Trevor was just a lose end. I don’t think Spencer had any grudges with the man to keep his body around 30 years just to experiment on him one day. Spencer was after all a fan of George’s work. He simply would have dispatched of him and disposed of the body. I know that it would be nice and sort of poetic for Crimson Elder to be George but it is just a bit farfetched and doesn’t fit. If Capcom wanted it to be George I think there would have been evidence of it. There is nothing really there to suggest that it is him though. God only knows how many subjects went through those labs chances are one in thousands.


The cryptic note that Lisa leaves is exactly the sort of information that would suggest it is George or could be confused as being him. What you say makes sense for this note however this is another explanation of what it could mean. The researchers found that roleplaying as Lisa’s parents seemed to make Lisa cooperate with their demands, she was after all very young, scared and missing them. This worked for a while until Lisa finally realised that these fake parents were not her real ones and tore their faces off. I do not believe that Lisa saw her mother or father after their deaths, she is simply referring to the researches who role played as her parents, hence the ‘not real mammy and don’t know daddy’. I think inside red slimy is a reference to blood and flesh whilst white hard being bone. She tore their faces off.

It took a while, but I’m reigniting this thread. I love this discussion.


@BSAArklay

These are some very interesting points. As to your first paragraph, I don't really take the Arias Battle at face value when it comes to Chris's skill with a gun up close, haha. That scene in of itself was ridiculous and I just consider it to be part of an elaborate entertaining choreography for the fight.


I honestly believe that Forest and Richard had brought the grenade launcher and shotgun, respectively.


Remember that Forest is Bravo Team’s Omni Man which means that he’s a man of many skills. He’s a marksman (only second to Chris), his driving skills were above average as well as his skill in upgrade and maintenance of vehicles, he excelled in handling heavy weapons, and he had skill in handling cybercrime. The job of the Omni Man in S.T.A.R.S. was transporting various types of equipment and mobilization of heavy armaments (which could mean by transport of vehicle or on-foot) as well as strategic actions away from the advance guard. Forest was assigned this position, put in charge of upgrade and maintenance, and became Bravo Team’s counter-hacker. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I also believe that the grenade launcher was a prototype defense weapon and it might be safe to assume that he was taking it out for a test-run. It’s also possible that he had the sniper rifle and lost it overnight battling B.O.W.’s before the arrival of Alpha Team.


The assault shotgun was said to be a custom S.T.A.R.S. model and Richard’s favorite, possibly customized for him personally.


I don’t believe that they found these weapons in the mansion. The cutscene at the beginning of RE0 (as well as the entire game) was a very bare bones interpretation of Bravo Team’s investigation. We have to remember that only 3 in-game models were created for the game.

-Rebecca

-Billy

-Edward


Every other human character that you saw was via FMV and considering that Rebecca was the main character, they probably just used the Samurai Edge as a universal weapon model for the whole Bravo Team in the intro, considering that we don’t see anyone else after that, save Enrico, who only had a Samurai Edge that we know of throughout the events of the incident.


I agree with your assessment of Chris’s scenario. Wesker disarmed her and took her away. I also think this is why I like Jill’s scenario for entering the mansion much more. I also agree that the “Jill Sandwich” should happen, although the actual use of the phrase may not be ideal at the time. Maybe Barry coining the Jill Sandwich term post incident as a joke when he tells the story to his family, maybe even with Chris and Jill present, works better.


As to your second paragraph, personally I don’t agree about Kenneth being an amateur. He wasn’t going to be assigned as Point Man if he didn’t have the skill. Yes, you could argue that he was recruited to S.T.A.R.S. for his PhD in chemistry which then make him extremely proficient in the involvement of Bio-Chemical cases, but he also had immense experience and preciseness in investigation, which Enrico took note of. These qualities would make him fit for Point Man, whose job is primarily frontline, performing reconnaissance and securing positions ahead of the rest of the team, just like Chris. You’d have to be extremely resourceful to have this position. It’s actually interesting, Kenneth has a green vest just like Chris. I wonder if that is significant to their position at all.


USSCommand’s theory is interesting. It is possible that he panicked and ran away after Edward was attacked considering the situation and the fact that Kenneth’s job was to scout ahead and alert the team of anything, not the other way around, but the dogs could have gotten the drop on them first and things could have gotten out of hand. He’s also the oldest member on the team which could prove to limit his current skill in combat. This was also no ordinary case.


However, I still feel that Kenneth being Point Man, once inside, was able to scout around the mansion and handle himself long enough until he was caught off guard by the zombie right before Alpha Team showed up. He was so close. That’s just my opinion.


As to your third paragraph, I feel like Richard’s positioning in the game being between two locked doors is just gameplay mechanics and puzzle related for the player to have to work to progress to that section of the game and then the attic slightly later. I don’t read into it that far. It’s the same thing for getting into the library later for the second Yawn fight. You can’t get in there until the game allows you to by going allllll the way to the guardhouse/residence to get the Helmet Key. I feel like Richard’s positioning in the hallway on the path to the attic is just fine. It’s also a pre-cursor to your first battle with Yawn, which makes you go “Oh, so that’s what he meant by a big snake”, whereas later is just the final battle in the library, or if you prefer the original instance like I do, the ballroom in the opposite wing.


As to the final part, I like all of the opinions about George Trevor's disappearance and it’s great to discuss the mystery of what became of him. There are so many awesome POV’s on the subject from various different angles. I also can see what you’re saying about Lisa’s note regarding the red and white, that also makes sense.


October 2, 2017 at 4:07 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Sonny Bauer
Member
Posts: 56

USS Command at August 10, 2017 at 7:26 PM

@Sonny Bauer

Good point with the Inox. There’s no real reason for Jill to bring it. But here’s my full reasoning for it. IF you fail to save Chris, Jill has this STRONG belief that he made it out somehow. So maybe she just thought Chris could use it/thought she needed a backup. The idea started in RE2’s Extreme Battle mode. Chris has the Inox and the wooden grip is very dull and worn looking compare to its look in Director's Cut. So I thought maybe after Jill left her Edge, she worn out the Inox and when they all escape, they just swapped weapons, allowing Jill to use her Edge in RE3. I know EB is a mini game BUT I figured if Capcom went through the trouble to give Chris unique animations then maybe the weapons could hold some canon value, after all Mad Jackel is a canon TV show that rich people watch. Also, Capcom changed the handgun into the Samurai Edge for the DS version of RE1 instead of leaving it as the normal or Inox Beretta. They could’ve easily done the same for Chris in RE2EB but didn’t. You could also argue that the Inox was his and not Jill’s still leaving room for your Barry Idea, which I do really like btw so I may just use that along with my idea somehow.

@BSAArklay

I forgot all about that theory....

They probably just got them out of the chopper off screen. Richard’s shotgun is said to be not only his favorite, but a STARS custom. Here’s an idea about the Grenade Launcher, it’s a new prototype from Saco Defense Corporation, and we know STARS got three slightly different models, SO what if Forest was testing it for range? Be a good idea considering it’s a new prototype. Plus, being the team’s sniper, who would be better to test the range and accuracy? Hell, if we want to throw more crap at Kenneth, maybe he was testing it for some reason, saw Edward get attack, and dropped the grenade launcher as he ran and it was found by Forest.

 

@USSCommand


While I find it interesting as to what you're saying about the Inox, I think it just comes down to where Capcom was at the time. I feel like the Inox was used in RE2EB because it was the weapon that was featured in the Arrange Mode in RE Director's Cut just prior to that game.


By the time RE3 was created, the standard sidearm for S.T.A.R.S. in that incarnation and the ones that followed was the Samurai Edge. I believe that the Samurai Edge was used in Deadly Silence because it was a newly created version of RE1 for the DS itself, whereas if you're talking about RE2's port to the gamecube and future ports and why the Samurai Edge wasn't included, it's because the game wasn't touched except for upscaling the graphics a little. The models stayed the same. That's all I can really think of.


It's my belief that the M92F and the Inox was originally the S.T.A.R.S. standard, but got replaced by the Samurai Edge earlier 1998 just before the mansion incident. I also do really like the idea of Chris getting Barry's Samurai Edge, glad that you like it as well.


That doesn't mean that Chris and Jill didn't have an M92F or Inox laying around their apartments somewhere, of course. ;)

October 2, 2017 at 5:09 PM Flag Quote & Reply

BSAArklay
Moderator
Posts: 603

“Correct me if I’m wrong, but I also believe that the grenade launcher was a prototype defense weapon and it might be safe to assume that he was taking it out for a test-run.” No that is correct I remember seeing that somewhere I can’t remember the source though. Avoiding a forest full of dogs carrying a ton of weapons would definitely be improbable so it is likely Forest only made it to the mansion carrying the grenade launcher. Using a sniper rifle against speed merchants like the Cerebus is impractical so yeah he probably ditched the rifle.


Kenneth was in essence a chemist hired by Wesker for his background in science. From Biohazard Director’s Cut Inside of Biohazard “Specializes in protective measures against chemical weapons and a PHD in Chemistry. Also like landscape gardening.” Doesn’t exactly sound like a bad ass military veteran to me lol. I mean I could be wrong but I see no evidence that Kenneth was a veteran and one of the most advanced in the STARS unit. It appears that he was some sort of scientist perhaps formerly in the military however his main attributes is that we was a chemist.

 

Yeah I understand that Richard’s being there is for the purpose of the gameplay however all it would have taken is one simple nod to how he could have gotten there and I see no reason as why we would have to consider the locked doors being non canon. Seems like a very cheap excuse to me to just write them off that easily when most of the other STARS placements can be explained with a simple use of imagination. We know that Chris confiscated evidence from the mansion like the emblem, jewel and god knows what else was in that box so if the puzzles are canon then surely the locked doors are too. What is more impractical? Imagining that Richard, Forest and Rebecca would have climbed certain areas or used open windows or just completely dismissing every single locked door in the mansion. There would be locked doors because the research staff were holed up in several rooms as well as you have to assume the whole mansion did not have open access at all times, due to the dangerous traps, secrets and the fact that there was an outbreak. Like the phone in Spencer’s office. One of the researchers asked permission to use that phone and was denied it, if the room was left open at all times and people could just wander around freely they would have access to things like the phone, radio and would not need permission.

--

"I've had enough of your bullshit! Your just another one of Umbrella's leftovers"

October 2, 2017 at 9:25 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Sonny Bauer
Member
Posts: 56

Kenneth was in essence a chemist hired by Wesker for his background in science. From Biohazard Director’s Cut Inside of Biohazard “Specializes in protective measures against chemical weapons and a PHD in Chemistry. Also like landscape gardening.” Doesn’t exactly sound like a bad ass military veteran to me lol. I mean I could be wrong but I see no evidence that Kenneth was a veteran and one of the most advanced in the STARS unit. It appears that he was some sort of scientist perhaps formerly in the military however his main attributes is that we was a chemist.


Yes, however, cited on page 18 of the Biohazard Kaitai Shinso is the following for Kenneth J. Sullivan;


"He specialized in protective measures against chemical weapons and was a highly skilled and trusted veteran with vast experience and wisdom that made him well-suited to the dangerous duties of reconnaissance and position security in spite of being the oldest in the unit. Even Vice-Captain Enrico Marini acknowledged his preciseness in investigation. He was the only Bravo Team officer equipped with a video recording device during operations."


So, it would seem that while Wesker did initially recruit Kenneth for his skill in chemistry, he also did possess these other skills.



Yeah I understand that Richard’s being there is for the purpose of the gameplay however all it would have taken is one simple nod to how he could have gotten there and I see no reason as why we would have to consider the locked doors being non canon. Seems like a very cheap excuse to me to just write them off that easily when most of the other STARS placements can be explained with a simple use of imagination. We know that Chris confiscated evidence from the mansion like the emblem, jewel and god knows what else was in that box so if the puzzles are canon then surely the locked doors are too. What is more impractical? Imagining that Richard, Forest and Rebecca would have climbed certain areas or used open windows or just completely dismissing every single locked door in the mansion. There would be locked doors because the research staff were holed up in several rooms as well as you have to assume the whole mansion did not have open access at all times, due to the dangerous traps, secrets and the fact that there was an outbreak. Like the phone in Spencer’s office. One of the researchers asked permission to use that phone and was denied it, if the room was left open at all times and people could just wander around freely they would have access to things like the phone, radio and would not need permission.


Well, I'm not dismissing all of the locked doors in the mansion, but I'm definitely allowing leeway for some story points to work. Richard and Rebecca fought the Yawn in the attic it would seem, except for Umbrella Chronicles (which I went over why Capcom may have moved it there for that game alone and why I don't agree with it), and Richard was bitten and injured, so logically if they were trying to make their way away from the attic and he couldn't go any further, he would have ended up where he did. It doesn't make any sense for most of the S.T.A.R.S. members to be where they are unless they all happened to get there by the most unlikely means, which your character cannot do. Richard even ends up in the Aqua Ring in Chris's scenario before you move the bookcase out of the way. It comes off as a gameplay mechanic to make the game more interesting and as a result a few plotholes occur.


Don't get me wrong, I love all of the special keys and the emblem pieces and crests and stone and metal objects and some of them logically work throughout the game, but some of them don't. The two Stone and Metal objects unlocking the way to the altar, but completely denying access to and from the shed at the back of the mansion, makes no sense and to me came off as just an interesting gameplay mechanic. That's an instance where the four crests in RE1 made more sense unlocking the shed.


And honestly, would the Helmet Key be all the way in a fireplace in the Residence/Guardhouse? Unless they actually confirm that this was all Wesker/Umbrella planning the placement as part of the combat data testing for S.T.A.R.S., I'm not buying it. 

October 2, 2017 at 10:51 PM Flag Quote & Reply

TheBatMan
Member
Posts: 251

A majority of the puzzles are for gameplay reasons only and the evidence Chris seized are just little easter eggs. How would the doom book and emblems help as evidence against Umbrella exactly?


Likewise with the locked doors. This is a video game at the end of the day. You'll drive yourself mad trying to rationalise something that is not meant to be rationalised.

October 3, 2017 at 4:31 AM Flag Quote & Reply

BSAArklay
Moderator
Posts: 603

Ok so this Kenneth topic seems to be up for debate until we get a proper translation. The biography that you posted seems to come from Archives and not the Kaitai Guide. The English version is known for its errors whilst the Japanese is strictly canon however without Newsbot’s interaction here it is unknown where he took the information from. Now I am looking at the Japanese materials we have for Kenneth and they all seem to state that Kenneth is simply a chemist whilst the Brady Guides add that he is also a talented field scout and investigator. Which leads me to believe that would be good enough for him to be assigned as PM (Point Man), being a good scout does not necessarily mean his combat skills are that of a veteran.


From Inside of Biohazard “PM (Point Man) Location scout in the front line during the mission. Reconnaissance and securing the position ahead of time are the duties. The most resourceful officer often falls in this category. “ Seems to me that PM only consists of being a good scout and investigator is the Brady guide has got it right and Newsbot’s translation is from the Japanese archives book then it is possible that Kenneth could be a Chemist and a field scout without being a skilled combatant. Or on the other hand the whole talented field scout and investigator has cropped up out of nowhere and is simply made up for the English guides again because I cannot see any of this in any of the Japanese guides only that he is a Chemist.


Throw in with all this that the same English guide (Resident Evil Remake Brady) where it states that he is a skilled scout it also states the following “His background is largely in the chemistry field and he sometimes wonders why Wesker recruited him for a rescue team.” Even Kenneth questions his being there. So if we are taking the field scout into consideration considering the only source I can find is English guides then we also have to take the fact that Kenneth questions his being on a rescue team due to his forte being a Chemist.


I think I should also add that the (Directors Cut Brady Guide) also states “A former Chemist now put’s his Chemical knowledge to work as a field scout. Personally chosen by Wesker to be a part of the Raccoon City team. Kenneth is undoubtedly a talented officer. Still he harbors questions as to why his scientific knowledge is necessary for this mission.” Again questioning his being there. I guess until we get a translation from one of Kenneth’s Japanese bio’s the whole scout/investigator/questioning his being there is all up for debate.


Concerning the Bravo Team’s locations in the mansion despite Richard’s being between two locked doors there is nothing to make sense of. Enrico, Kenneth, Rebecca and even Forest can all be explained with a simple use of imagination and I am not suggesting they sprouted wings or walked through walls there can be very simple explanations like they hoped over a wall or climbed a fence. Which is why is it so frustrating to me that it can just be written off with a simple non canon claim. Capcom have never outright stated this so I refuse to believe it until I see proof of that. If something doesn’t fit does not give us the right to dismiss it. Raccoon City’s maps have several iterations so are we going to assume Raccoon City never had a layout? Resident Evil 7’s DLC has time discrepancies but for some reason people still consider them canon. The series has issues but I prefer to try and think of logical ways that it can fit into the canon rather than just dismiss it for consistency’s sake. If it cannot possibly be explained then I prefer to think it is an error made by Capcom rather than dismiss a whole gameplay mechanic. Richard ending up in the Aqua Ring is unlikely and so this mean’s he would have died by Yawn, it’s a simple case of doing the math but I suppose since there is no proof we should just assume he died is some random way because gameplay elements are non-canon? Isn’t that the whole point of this thread? To discuss theories.


The Helmet Key could have been all the way in the fireplace by Plant 42 because one of the higher up researchers had the key on his person and died via Plant 42, it make’s perfect sense to me. Wesker did not play hide and seek with the key’s it is more a case of the researchers actions pre STARS arrival. I don’t think Wesker did much of anything when arriving at the mansion he left the main hall and headed straight for the hidden room with CCTV and had Barry run around covering his tracks by destroying evidence.


Batman the book of doom would help back up Chris’s story. If he starts talking about BOW’s, traps and experiments yes the files and puzzle pieces would help to back up Chris’s theory. Its evidence and probably all he could manage to carry aside from dragging a zombie through the map with him these small pieces are all he would be able to take with him. It is meant to be rationalised there is a story there to be told and just because all the pieces of the puzzle don’t quite fit into place does not mean we can dismiss the entire thing it just means something of the pieces don’t fit…..at least not yet. Writing off gameplay elements and puzzles is not something I will ever agree with why draw the line there? Why not write off the files, dialogue, cutscenes. It’s totally dismissive and foolish to just draw a line in the sand and say this stuff count’s but the rest doesn’t. Again Capcom have never stated otherwise and until that time I believe they are canon.

--

"I've had enough of your bullshit! Your just another one of Umbrella's leftovers"

October 3, 2017 at 10:27 AM Flag Quote & Reply

Sonny Bauer
Member
Posts: 56
I agree with you to a certain extent on drawing a line to what may have happened, but at some point you have to stop and think how two characters fought a giant snake in an attic and then locked in between two doors with two different locks, and then one of the keys were hidden inside a grandfather clock and the other was place in a trap that requires an imitation version to retrieve. It just doesn├??t work. The game wants you to complete these certain puzzles to get these keys to unlock these doors, and in a sense, ├??unlock├?? further progression into the game. I├??m not writing off all of it, but some of them, especially the Richard/Rebecca encounter, you just have to take at face value that it was placed there mechanically as essentially unlocking a new area of the game. Kenneth├??s situation cannot be answered unless there is more proof, I agree with you.
October 3, 2017 at 12:09 PM Flag Quote & Reply

USS Command
Moderator
Posts: 333

Well the key that needs an imitation does work as there's a file in the game explaining it. There also Wesker saying there's locked doors still in the mansion when you met him in the Residence house. So obviously there’s some canon doors being locked. The locations of the keys and how, when, and where they are gotten maybe different.

As with the RE2 ports, Capcom made small changes with them all. The PS1 Duel shock has a dead MA-121 in Birkin’s lab. The zombies also have more verity of models and damage depending on port. They changed the passcode for the safe from 2236 to 4542 and the user registration from GUEST to NEMESIS in the N64 version. So they couldve easily change the texture along with the title call voice. 


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"I'll take my Survival Horror like I take my men" - George Trevor, September 3, 2017 at 6:10 PM

“Great love springs from great knowledge of the beloved object and if you know it but a little, you will be able to love it only a little or not at all.” - Leonardo da Vinci

October 3, 2017 at 1:26 PM Flag Quote & Reply

Sonny Bauer
Member
Posts: 56
Yes, but all the ports for RE2 were pre-RE3 were they not? Except for the GameCube and PSN which were directly transferred from the DualShock edition of the PS1, so only the graphics were up scaled. The Wesker comment is valid. My issue isn┬?t with the explanation of the imitation key. It┬?s the process of getting the Armor Key to get to Richard and Rebecca, who are already behind the door, and then finding the Shield kEy in the grandfather clock after the fact the fact that they had already come from the attic. Narrative wise it doesn┬?t make sense to me. I┬?d be open to theories as to why they are in between two locked rooms that they had already ventured through previously.
October 3, 2017 at 2:05 PM Flag Quote & Reply

BSAArklay
Moderator
Posts: 603

Well there are possible theories as to how Richard became stranded between two locked doors. Perhaps Sergei and Ivan locked Richard in there when they were at the mansion to collect TALOS. It is possible that there was more than one key and Sergei basically had skeleton key's for the entire mansion. Another possibility is the door's were left a jar and once closing them behind you they automatically lock. Like I said not everything can be explained and sometimes it just comes down to an error on Capcom's part. However just because of this one error it doesn't mean we should write off the entire mechanic. For all we know Richard could have had a second copy of the Armor key and locked himself in between those two doors to stop any zombies passing through since they could open doors. Or maybe even Rebecca locked him in there whilst she went to retrive the serum. I find it difficult to understand how people find it impossible to believe how Richard, Rebecca, Sergei, Wesker, Barry couldn't have locked him in there but can so easily just dismiss the entire mechanic with no evidence of the locked doors being non canon. My point is I would rather imagine there is an explanation than to just write it off entirely because there is no black and white explanation. 

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"I've had enough of your bullshit! Your just another one of Umbrella's leftovers"

October 3, 2017 at 2:55 PM Flag Quote & Reply

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